New naga unit - revised, now testing!

It's not easy creating an entire faction or era. Post your work and collaborate in this forum.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
Sapient
Inactive Developer
Posts: 4449
Joined: November 26th, 2005, 7:41 am
Contact:

New naga unit - revised, now testing!

Post by Sapient » December 31st, 2005, 6:55 pm

Naga Depthstalker
(advances from: Naga Fighter)

HP: 39 {may change}
attacks: sword 5-4, backstab

description: Some nagas, whether through cowardice or cunning, develop a knack for surviving in darker depths of the water. After special training, this knowledge can develop into an entirely diffferent branch of combat, although it is just as deadly. Naga Depthstalkers are especially valued as brood guardians, where they keep watch over eggs laid in hidden caves.
Attachments
depthstalker.zip
latest images, unit file, and Naga Test Era
(51.83 KiB) Downloaded 304 times
naga-depthstalker.png
Naga Depthstalker (L2)
naga-depthstalker.png (906 Bytes) Viewed 5717 times
Last edited by Sapient on January 13th, 2006, 12:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

im the one you think of
Posts: 104
Joined: September 2nd, 2005, 6:06 pm
Location: portsmouth, u.k.

Post by im the one you think of » December 31st, 2005, 7:01 pm

i like the idea, and i think this unit should have a stronger attack, for example 8-3, to give a more powerful attack, and the chance for the enemy not to get poisoned.

this unit would have nightstalk right? and would be more adapted to fighting in water than the other naga?
Ssshh! I'm secretly male.

User avatar
Tomsik
Posts: 1401
Joined: February 7th, 2005, 7:04 am
Location: Poland

Post by Tomsik » December 31st, 2005, 7:04 pm

I think 5-3 Poison or backstab would be ok, why so few? Nightstalk can be very powerful and if you want to advance from so cheap and easy to advance unit...

P.S.: Yeah, that mean i like the idea.

User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW » December 31st, 2005, 7:21 pm

It's an interesting idea, I give you that. I would tweak the attack numbers to something more like the suggested 8-3, or possibly 5-4. You want him to gain some damage on level and I'd rather leave the naga with 4 attacks as that's what makes him different than mermen (and lack of cold resistancies...and neutralness yes...).

I'm not sure if this is an appropriate advancement for the naga, but it's definitely cool. I like the art too.

User avatar
Sapient
Inactive Developer
Posts: 4449
Joined: November 26th, 2005, 7:41 am
Contact:

Post by Sapient » December 31st, 2005, 9:49 pm

im the one you think of wrote: this unit would have nightstalk right? and would be more adapted to fighting in water than the other naga?
right, nightstalk and two different terrain boosts than the naga warrior gets:

Code: Select all

hitpoints=41
movement_type=naga
ability=nightstalk
[defense]
	deep_water=40
	cave=50
[/defense]
I guess there is a wide variety of opinion on the damage, but I think it might as well stay at 4-4, since the other changes make up for it.

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin » January 1st, 2006, 7:07 pm

Well, I like the idea of a branch for the naga line...
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

User avatar
Sapient
Inactive Developer
Posts: 4449
Joined: November 26th, 2005, 7:41 am
Contact:

Post by Sapient » January 1st, 2006, 8:43 pm

Updated art is in the Art Forum. here
Last edited by Sapient on January 5th, 2006, 5:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

User avatar
Sapient
Inactive Developer
Posts: 4449
Joined: November 26th, 2005, 7:41 am
Contact:

Post by Sapient » January 3rd, 2006, 4:22 am

I was hoping to get a little feedback from the developers. Mainly, two questions: A) do you see a reason for this unit in the Northerners? Obviously, I think so, because I proposed it. B) do you agree with the damage, hp, terrain defense, etc?


If I should post this to another forum, just let me know.
Thanks

User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW » January 3rd, 2006, 5:01 am

Like I said I think he needs to do more damage. Adding abilities is nice, but Nightstalk and Poison don't actually make the unit a better fighter. He's also giving twice as much xp to all units it fights now too. Does that seem appropriate?

At least do 5-4...

-edit-

If you go Backstab (which you should consider) you could leave it as 4-4 however.

ozymandias
Posts: 169
Joined: June 9th, 2005, 12:03 am
Location: Kiel, Germany

Post by ozymandias » January 3rd, 2006, 11:00 am

Probably should be chaotic too, since nightstalk implies they specialize in fighting in the dark...

User avatar
Sapient
Inactive Developer
Posts: 4449
Joined: November 26th, 2005, 7:41 am
Contact:

Post by Sapient » January 3rd, 2006, 3:01 pm

Well, the way I see it JW is he's getting pretty much a guaranteed extra 8 damage because of the four poison attempts. So more like 4-4 {+8}.

Compare this with the necrohpages 7-3 attack (also a level 2 unit).

The naga depthstalker is more of a specialty unit than a general fighter. Ideally, you have a bunch of Naga Warriors and a one or two Depthstalkers. You take a Depthstalker in, posion as many units as possibly, then it runs away under cover of darkness (nightstalk).

I'm certainly not opposed to increasing the damage to 5-4, it just seems slighty more powerful than a necrophage. Granted, if you have the strong trait (which there's a pretty good chance), you will have 5-4.

And yes, if you look at the unit file you will notice I made it chaotic (much the same reason that woses are lawful).

Yogibear
Retired Developer
Posts: 1086
Joined: September 16th, 2005, 5:44 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by Yogibear » January 3rd, 2006, 3:57 pm

I like the idea. It makes water fights more interesting. I see one problem though: How do i counter this unit?

It is going to fight in the water mainly. It has good defense there. To counter it you would need a unit with a good range attack. The only such unit in default era that is usable in the water seems to be the merman hunter.

But what are the other factions supposed to do? Ok, it is a level 2 unit but having an almost undefeatable unit if you manage to level is too much of a drawback i think.
Smart persons learn out of their mistakes, wise persons learn out of others mistakes!

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott » January 3rd, 2006, 4:05 pm

It's like the wraith in reverse. The wraith problem was fixed by making it easy to kill. I'm sure someone will come up with something similar for this guy.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

User avatar
Ranger M
Art Contributor
Posts: 1965
Joined: December 8th, 2005, 9:13 pm
Location: England

Post by Ranger M » January 3rd, 2006, 4:11 pm

Maybe a really bad resistance to fire, cos they spend so much time underwater that they hate warmth, let alone any kind of heat.

User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW » January 3rd, 2006, 4:50 pm

Sapient wrote:Well, the way I see it JW is he's getting pretty much a guaranteed extra 8 damage because of the four poison attempts. So more like 4-4 {+8}.

Compare this with the necrohpages 7-3 attack (also a level 2 unit).

The naga depthstalker is more of a specialty unit than a general fighter. Ideally, you have a bunch of Naga Warriors and a one or two Depthstalkers. You take a Depthstalker in, posion as many units as possibly, then it runs away under cover of darkness (nightstalk).

I'm certainly not opposed to increasing the damage to 5-4, it just seems slighty more powerful than a necrophage. Granted, if you have the strong trait (which there's a pretty good chance), you will have 5-4.

And yes, if you look at the unit file you will notice I made it chaotic (much the same reason that woses are lawful).
The necrophage has resistancies to blade, cold, and pierce damage: 10/40/30 respectively. Also, the necrophage is a land unit and will encounter more enemies to poison. I think that his levelling up should actually be boosted a little.

That said, it doesn't change the fact that a group of units can gang this unit and get twice as much xp before killing it than it's level 1 counterpart.

I don't believe that poisoning their units for a temporary annoyance that can't kill them is worth that cost.

Post Reply