How to beat undead when they only use bats and ghouls?

[pg]

Is there anyway? Undead also can use Dark Adepts vs Northerners and Drakes to help the Bats and Ghouls. I am told his strategy is near unbeatable but I am posting first before I go and test it.

[casueps]

lots of white mages!!

[turin]

lots of white mages!!

i think he meant in MP not age of heroes era...

[Popito]

What about another undead switching ghouls for skeletons???

[telly]

Play on a map without villages :).

[pg]

I have played a few games with this strategy and been able to win with ease. I manage to rack up a big income with many bats and ghouls neutralize any attack by poisoning or sitting on villages defending. The key to using ghouls correctly is only to poison enemy units. Once they are poisoned do not bother attacking them anymore. Your goal is to poison as many units as possible and let it do the work for you. I especially like sacrificing a ghoul to poison the enemy leader.

[Dave]

Hmm...I thought we removed ghouls from undead a few versions ago. What happened to that change?

David

[Neoriceisgood]

Someone wondered why a perfectly o.k level 1 undead unit wasn't in the faction; so it got added, and now undead are a pain in the neck to fight against.

[Elvish Pillager]

Someone wondered why a perfectly o.k level 1 undead unit wasn't in the faction; so it got added, and now undead are a pain in the neck to fight against.

Yep.

I think that the Ghoul is overpowered, actually. It's minimally worse than a Skeleton, and it has POISON.

[Shade]

Before this grinds on more: it has been given a downgrade in CVS. Fewer HP, now moves 5 like other man sized foot units.

[telly]

Played a few games tonight and I think upkeep needs to be changed somehow. Even if you raise the cost of level 0 units, ok it makes them less viable on smaller maps but the problem still remains in bigger games.

[cobretti]

Hmm...I thought we removed ghouls from undead a few versions ago. What happened to that change?

David

I have some guilt about it, as some weeks ago I posted about how inbalancing was to play 'a fair game' (not bat/corpes flooding) with undead against rebels and the so-feared woses. One of the possibilities that appear was to give undead ghouls to limit woses' regeneration, and looks like it was the one selected.

However, the point of that post was to show that giving a regeneration-able, impact tank unit to a faction and then fighting another faction in which all units have a major weakness against impact is odd, IMHO. I really preferred the alternative of splitting undead in two groups, one with that impact weakness and another with a changed movetype and good resistance against it.

[Popito]

One of the possibilities that appear was to give undead ghouls to limit woses' regeneration, and looks like it was the one selected.

Are you saying that to balance a partial weakness against a single unit of a faction you made balance giving even more power to the all around most powerfull faction?? (i am seeing it form the MP point of view). Now as undead units got no special resistances against fire they should get also a fire resistance tree, as drakes have something to say against an undead.

However, the point of that post was to show that giving a regeneration-able, impact tank unit to a faction and then fighting another faction in which all units have a major weakness against impact is odd

In fact i would like all factions to have some vulnerabilites. As things are with woses defense and resistances to blade (skeleton) attack it will cost a few skeletons but not an irrational amount in night (2 skeletons with 2 out of 3 hits -average with woses defense- will do 60 hp...enough to kill the wose and they may not die if woses misses any attack ). Where's the unbalance??????
If you have nothing to fear tactics become dull because all you have to do is get out there and kick ppls ass. Its fine to me see elves fleeing to a forest when horsemen come to open terrain, i wont expect for elves to have something against cavalry in the open to make game even.

Thats just my point of view.

[Burnsaber]

I couldn´t agree more with Popito, factions must be different, but balanced.(not an easy task, but i think that it is possible). Having one weakness for each faction is fine and makes games more fun, as Popito said, you just cant rush against the enemy without fear. I still remember how in one MP game the drakes were coming to my castle, but they went fleeing towards cover when they saw my 2 horsemen ready to charge(it was day too )

[Circon]

Mm. Ghouls are overpowered almost by definition. They're melee poisoners. And, say, a Northener is not recruiting a dozen Archers to deal with that.
Now, lowering their number of strokes, to 2 or maybe even 1 (and call it "frenzied lunge") would be nice, since it doesn't guarantee poisoning quite so often.
I considered it in TDH campaign. I decided against. Seeing this, I'm glad of it.