[Historical] Liberty

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scott
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Post by scott »

Yeah, a guy several posts up had the same problem. It won't work on versions prior to 0.8.3 because of the changes gettext required for scenarios and units.

I can see how much work it would be to convert everything to pre-gettext format.
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ott
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Post by ott »

OK, upgraded to Wesnoth 0.8.5, and the gettext problem has gone away.

However, it seems impossible to even get through even the first scenario in Hard. The goblin leader simply gallops north, ignoring my troops. In over a dozen attempts, I've managed to engage its troops in an attempt to distract them, but the leader still just keeps on truckin'. The fastest unit one starts with is barely able to keep up, until the leader just sails into the village at the end of turn 4.

I attach a replay, for reference. This is with Liberty 1.1.3, although 1.1.2 was pretty similar.
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Post by Circon »

Wow. Where do you get the story images?
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Post by scott »

The 3-D perspective ones I made and 2 are photos. In the first one, the trees I did myself. In the second one, it's a selective blur of a sudanese village with GIMP noise for the plumes. The third one I did myself, but I used stock photo pine trees w/ the selective blur and GIMP lighting. The fourth one is from a photo. I did the selective blur, replaced the sky with a gradient, and darkened the land.
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Edited for grammar
Last edited by scott on October 17th, 2004, 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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scott
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Post by scott »

Here is a replay on hard. I figured if someone lost, and they weren't yet discouraged, they would try again and really prioritize getting that leader. If you do a suicide attack he'll usually nest in a village and attack you. It's for the best because none of those units has any traits anyway.

But, I am changing it so the town guards show up earlier to give you a fighting chance. I'll take out the piers and release it as 1.2.

Thanks for checking it out on hard. I haven't done much playing on hard so it's appreciated.
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turin
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Post by turin »

scott wrote:Here is a replay on hard. I figured if someone lost, and they weren't yet discouraged, they would try again and really prioritize getting that leader. If you do a suicide attack he'll usually nest in a village and attack you. It's for the best because none of those units has any traits anyway.
they also have free upkeep. so thats not really logical...
scott wrote:But, I am changing it so the town guards show up earlier to give you a fighting chance.
why not have them appear on a "moveto" event?
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scott
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Post by scott »

I misspoke by saying "earlier." I expanded the moveto box for them to show up. Difficulty now dictates the number of helpers you get. I think on hard, one guard won't be enough to fully stop the leader if you haven't already been chasing the guy the whole time, but it's better than nothing.
But, now the piers are gone and the campaign select dialogue now tells you the min BFW version required to play.
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Post by ott »

Here is a more successful replay. Thanks for the suggestions, but ended up stumbling on the right way through brute force in the end.

I think the suicide mission wasn't that clear initially, why place a unit just to slow down the leader by a few hexes? Only on about the 20th attempt did it become clear that the few hexes give the village guards time to get ready. It didn't help that the village guards only appeared if the orc leader was actually slowed by the zone of control of a suicide unit, so there was no hint that a suicide strategy was going to work until I actually tried it!

This is definitely doable (no reloads in this replay), so perhaps it can be kept as is for Hard but with a stronger worded introduction, "We need to stop the leader at any cost" or something like that.

A suggestion: please enable the bonus for early finish, this is set to "no" as of 1.1.3. As you can see from the replay, from turn 9 to turn 22 the outlaw army was just sitting on the lone survivor, gaining experience and waiting for gold to roll in from the villages. This shouldn't be necessary.
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Post by scott »

Ok, let's get to work!
What do you think would be enough hinting about how to win this one? I did add some dialogue about what they should do. Someone says, "Goblins do not do well without their leader. If we can bring him down, we may stop them." I see how this can still be ambiguous. I would like it to not be frustrating for players but I want it to still be said "in role". I added some more talking in 1.2.1 (uploaded in a little bit). Let me know if it helps, and let me know if expanding the moveto box for the guard(s) helps. As far as I can tell, they should always appear now around turn 3.

The lack of bonus was intentional because of the story context that you're trying to rush back to town and you're supposed to start out the second scenario at a slight disadvantage. It's the same reason why you can't recruit any units - your limited access to resources means everyone who would be in your army is already with you. Next, the scenario 2 can be kind of a gift with a large number of villages you already own and a bonus. I changed it to result=continue, which doesn't take out 80%.
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Post by ott »

Your comments about starting the second scenario at a disadvantage sound reasonable. However, look at the second replay I posted: the orcs are defeated at turn 9 on Hard (with Liberty 1.1.3, Wesnoth 0.8.5) and I keep the lone survivor around until it threatens to level up on turn 22, harvesting 12+ gold and an XP or two per turn, finally ending up with over 350 at the finish! Hardly a disadvantage.

Regarding wording, I think an admonishment along the lines of "We must defeat their leader at any cost, if we are to have any hope of getting back to the village in time!" would work, after the existing text about goblins being weak without their leader.
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Post by scott »

I put the [+units] tag in an #ifdef. The strange thing was that it wouldn't work if the directory lines weren't positioned properly. Weird. I also fixed the female outlaws and am working on making it 0.8.4-only with the @ character. Thanks for the feedback, and if anyone wants access to the L3 outlaws, you can modify the liberty.cfg file to remove the #ifdef...#endif around the [+units] tag. For now, I am retiring from the job of Wesnoth terrorist. The changes will be reflected in v1.3.
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turin
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Post by turin »

bug (probably)...

in Unlawful Orders, when the enemies turn to ghosts, they keep the health they had. this means they have 38/19. ghosts are hard to damage as it is; this makes them impossible to kill.

why not use the full health thing (forgot its name, look it up on the wiki) to make it so when the change happens this doesn't happen?
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Post by MadMax »

heal_full=yes?

But then what about damage they have incurred? It would be hard to scale it down to proportion.
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scott
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Post by scott »

I wrote it under 0.8.3 and things were less crazy with the ghosts. It could be possible to store the HP ratio and apply it to the new unit. Healing the units each time would be just as frustrating. A better solution would be to make the cavalry change into a unit I have more control over...
But thanks for bringing it up. I didn't realize the ghost changes were causing havoc.

edit: ok, try it now. Ghosts and wraiths are gone.

Also, I am still having trouble with +units in the ifdef. Things are back to the way they were before. If you downloaded 1.3.1, you should really update.

Also, did some balancing at L3 and changed one of the "cameos" from undeadfoot to mounted.
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Post by Iron »

Just finished the campaign on medium, and I have to say I really enjoyed it. More so than HttT in fact. The dialog/story is very well written, and there's a lot of imagination in some of the level designs. I liked how it wasn't level after level of (a) overcome a huge army then (b) kill leaders of said huge army to win, well at least it wasn't that all the time. Having an inferior force & having missions that emphasize sneaking, hit & run and distracting the enemy while a lone unit or two fulfills the mission (the last level especially) was a refreshing change, reminding me somewhat of Myth's solos.

PS: I got a good laugh from walking a bandit into a campfire :)
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