Battle Theme - Dwarves?

Create music and sound effects for mainline or user-made content.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Rain
Music Contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

Battle Theme - Dwarves?

Post by Rain »

Orc Theme?

http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/rai ... esnoth.mp3

2nd revision

http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/rai ... attle2.mp3

3rd revision

http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/rai ... nTheme.ogg

I'd really like to help out with the battle themes so I tried hammering something out. It's pretty intense!

This was an idea for an orc theme which is represented by the percussion (anvil, bass and cymbals) It's kind of off-kilter...

I'd really appreciate some feedback on the piece. :)

Thanks

-R
Last edited by Rain on January 29th, 2008, 9:09 am, edited 4 times in total.
hiro hito
Posts: 201
Joined: November 23rd, 2006, 8:00 am

Post by hiro hito »

I like it!

Perc schemas are nice and the pans moves are cool! So many differents part in the piece make it very interesting and keeps the atmosphere very intense!

I dont like strings sounds too much, because they sound very synthetic. Did you try to double some parts to see if they sound less synthetic?
"Of course His Majesty is a pacifist. When I told him that to initiate war was a mistake, he agreed.Thus, gradually, he began to lead toward war."-Emperor Shòwa (Enlightened Peace)'s chief cabinet secretary
Rain
Music Contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

Post by Rain »

hiro hito wrote:I like it!

Perc schemas are nice and the pans moves are cool! So many differents part in the piece make it very interesting and keeps the atmosphere very intense!

I dont like strings sounds too much, because they sound very synthetic. Did you try to double some parts to see if they sound less synthetic?
Thanks Hiro.

I know exactly what you mean about the strings. I don't know if it's the sample itself or the way it's being used or what. A bit of instrumental molding probably wouldn't hurt. Maybe I am just using the 'wrong' sample. Furthermore, perhaps I am using the wrong sample 'incorrectly'.

Bah. Anyways, I will try to hunker down and find a better approach to those strings if I can.

Thanks for the feedback.
Dveman115
Posts: 122
Joined: July 26th, 2007, 3:31 pm
Contact:

Post by Dveman115 »

Sounds good, but there are a few parts that I'm a little unsure of. In the beginning, you have several different things going on with brass, woodwinds, percussion, and many more. But the problem is that the "loud" instruments are playing at a higher volume then the "softer" instruments. If I were a conductor, then I would have the brass be playing around mp or mf, and the flutes and violins be playing at mf to f. Also, it sounds like you either didn't pan at all, or it is more panned to the left. And make sure to adjust the volume to where the players would be seated if the were really playing.

Just my 2 cents :)


-Devman
Rain
Music Contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

Post by Rain »

Dveman115 wrote:Sounds good, but there are a few parts that I'm a little unsure of. In the beginning, you have several different things going on with brass, woodwinds, percussion, and many more.
Dveman115 wrote:In the beginning, you have several different things going on with brass, woodwinds, percussion, and many more. But the problem is that the "loud" instruments are playing at a higher volume then the "softer" instruments.
Yeea. Strings and brass are probably too close in the mix, the woodwinds are too far back.
The woodwinds are actually playing at a harder velocity setting than the other instruments. (odd) Hmmm... I think the strings are throwing everything off right now. I think I need to add some softer strings into the mix.

I have some orchestral equalizing to do.
If I were a conductor, then I would have the brass be playing around mp or mf, and the flutes and violins be playing at mf to f. Also, it sounds like you either didn't pan at all, or it is more panned to the left. And make sure to adjust the volume to where the players would be seated if the were really playing.
Thanks for the thoughts. :)
User avatar
Temuchin Khan
Posts: 1731
Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 6:35 pm
Location: Player 6 on the original Agaia map

Post by Temuchin Khan »

Not bad, but I find myself wondering if it might not work better as a Knalgan theme instead.

Just speculating, though.

Besides, wasn't Gameplay 3 originally meant to be an Orc theme?
Rain
Music Contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

Post by Rain »

While I wrote the piece with a orc thematic in mind, it needn't be relevant to only that particular scheme. The piece is largely unformed so that I might add instrumental nuances to it later on. :)

Can you describe the Knalgan's in a bit more detail?
User avatar
Temuchin Khan
Posts: 1731
Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 6:35 pm
Location: Player 6 on the original Agaia map

Post by Temuchin Khan »

Rain wrote:Can you describe the Knalgan's in a bit more detail?
Here, I'll try to define it.

Knalgan Alliance: Mainline Wesnoth faction which consists of Dwarves and Human Outlaws.
Rain
Music Contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

Post by Rain »

Thanks Temuchin. Detail really means everything in the world of the imagination. I appreciate the illustration. ;)

Anyhoo, I've made some progress on this theme. I haven't messed too much with panning I'm afraid, seeing as how East West supposedly comes equipped with all instruments in their correct acoustic alignment standard...
but I've definitely tried to find more realistic reverb and delay sequences for the instruments and I've made some good ground with it. (though far from perfect)

Revision!

http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/rai ... attle2.mp3

You'll notice that I've added a substantial amount of material to the piece and now it clocks in at a shade under 10 minutes. I tried to lengthen the melodic phrasing and add a bit of refinement within the thematic development.

Still a lot of work to be done on orchestration but I'm glad to be making progress!
hiro hito
Posts: 201
Joined: November 23rd, 2006, 8:00 am

Post by hiro hito »

it's really better!!!

The sound is really better, some instruments still sound synthetic, but strings sound better then previous ones and the general mix is better: nice ambience and space...

I really like the second half of the piece , i find the first one a bit redundant but it gives good ambience....
"Of course His Majesty is a pacifist. When I told him that to initiate war was a mistake, he agreed.Thus, gradually, he began to lead toward war."-Emperor Shòwa (Enlightened Peace)'s chief cabinet secretary
Rain
Music Contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

Post by Rain »

Thanks Hiro!

I decided to add more of an intro because I felt the piece jumped off into its main idea too quickly with not enough buildup to aid in proper tension and release.

The strings still need a bit of work but I'll get there eventually. :)
User avatar
Jetrel
Art Director
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Post by Jetrel »

Thoughts:
- This is precisely the kind of length we need. Great on that count. :)

- Most of the instruments sound quite good, but there is something about the strings that still just sounds synthetic - I think a lot of it is that they just don't have that *bite* when the pull of the bow starts. Rather, they seem to be playing the sound that would come during the middle of the draw during the whole draw of the bow. I don't know how to solve this - Alexis, TimP, West, or that Doug guy might know better than me.

- The second half of the song is considerably better than the first; the first half of the song has these occasional dissonant overlays that don't seem to really have an overarching plan to them. If they could somehow be unified into some big scheme, that would really help, I think.

- One very good point about this song is that it has sections, later in the song, which are similar enough to earlier sections that the listener sort of "loses his place" in the song, and just becomes immersed in an audio environment. I've seen this trick in a couple of games, one notable example being Diablo II - if the music reprises certain motifs, it becomes less obvious to the listener that they're at X time point in the song, and the song feels longer as a result.

- I think that Temuchin is exactly right - this piece makes me think much more of dwarves than of orcs. Wesnoth's orcs aren't the noble savages seen in some other games, they're more truly evil; brutal, cruel, stupid, and ultimately quite tragic for the world as a whole. This song has too much "optimism," if you will, to really fit them.
Rain
Music Contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

Post by Rain »

Thank you Jetryl. This feedback is perfect.

- Cool

- Hmmm. I am not sure how to simulate the bowstring on that particular patch... or on any patch for that matter. Some samples have the stringing of the bow as a natural part of the strike but perhaps only certain samples are capable of doing that.

- I am pretty sure you are referring to the off-rhythm brass section 'blasts'. They are mainly there for texture and to throw the melody and percussion off a bit. They re-occur later in the piece as well and only have a vague semblance regarding the melody. I honestly don't know if I want them to be more structurally sound... that might defeat the sense of 'purpose' of having them there, if that makes sense (probably not)

- Excellent. I think it might be okay if the listener gets lost a few times. (Though I think the form of the song might become more discernable through multiple plays.)

- Okay. I'll just change the name of this thread then. :)

Thanks for the feedback. It's very helpful.
User avatar
Iris
Site Administrator
Posts: 6718
Joined: November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm
Location: Chile
Contact:

Post by Iris »

Nice.

I'm adding it to Invasion from the Unknown 0.7, FYI. :)
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14.x and 1.15.4+).
Rain
Music Contributor
Posts: 256
Joined: September 27th, 2005, 4:44 am

Post by Rain »

Excellent. Have at it.
Post Reply