2-8p ConquerNations BETA3

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
appleide
Posts: 1003
Joined: November 8th, 2003, 10:03 pm
Location: Sydney,OZ

2-8p ConquerNations BETA3

Post by appleide » August 22nd, 2007, 12:04 pm

ConquerNations.

4 human players recommended. Capture all villages of each island to gain its income. Recruit as normal OR, capture village closest to a keep, then you can right click and click Recruit even if the keep is empty. As long as you control the village you can do this. You can set a player to be your ally by right clicking that player's unit and click Diplomacy. If that player does the same to you then you two will be allies next turn. Note that team chats don't work properly. If your leader dies, you lose. AI units do not get modified properly as yet.

Use any era to play. Preferably Default.

Seems like people do not notice this major feature of the scenario: You can change teams while playing. This could mean your ally is fighting someone who is your ally too. To make allies, right click on that player's units and click "Diplomacy". A dialog comes up and you can set it as ally or enemy or give him 10 gold. If that player sets you as ally too, at the end of that player's turn you will be allies. Advantages are in terms of ZOC and healing only. If either player wants to break alliance they can set the other as enemy and it will enact at end of turn. This prevents 1 turn backstabs.

EDIT: Wesnoth 1.3.6 over required. Preferably SVN, for a 'more complete' experience. (This would also mean that I, the author, do not meet the requirements myself.) If you use SVN the units should get teleport.

UPDATE 7/9/07: More water, no berserk, fixed tentacle.

UPDATE 1/9/07: Removed Woses, Skeletons, modified map a little. Made leaders easier to kill. Version 1.3.7 and up. Units have teleport. Added Transport and Pirate Galleons to replace the skeletons. Added 2 level 2 elves to replace Woses.
Attachments
ConquerNations.jpg
ConquerNations.jpg (191.27 KiB) Viewed 2337 times
Archive.zip
UPDATED 7/9/07
(8.97 KiB) Downloaded 180 times
Last edited by appleide on September 7th, 2007, 6:21 am, edited 9 times in total.

Rhuvaen
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1272
Joined: August 27th, 2004, 8:05 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post by Rhuvaen » August 24th, 2007, 11:27 am

Very nice idea. I'm just put off by one thing - the fighting until death for recruited units (i.e. berserk on all attacks). I guess you included this in order to make games play quicker, but IMO it takes away a lot of the "combined arms" strategies of wesnoth and makes combat a lot less interesting (because generally if you have an advantageous attack range/type combination, you have a win).

User avatar
appleide
Posts: 1003
Joined: November 8th, 2003, 10:03 pm
Location: Sydney,OZ

Post by appleide » August 24th, 2007, 3:14 pm

Rhuvaen wrote:Very nice idea. I'm just put off by one thing - the fighting until death for recruited units (i.e. berserk on all attacks). I guess you included this in order to make games play quicker, but IMO it takes away a lot of the "combined arms" strategies of wesnoth and makes combat a lot less interesting (because generally if you have an advantageous attack range/type combination, you have a win).
Hmm... If I do that I'd reckon I need to make the map around 25% as small. I guess I will have to do that... I have played an example game where berserk has been taken off. Its... taken me 90 turns even though it was all against the AI who was supposedly crippled. I'll upload the fork and the replay here.

link: http://www.appleide.sitesled.com/conque ... replay.txt
Attachments
Fork.zip
(8.63 KiB) Downloaded 121 times

Rhuvaen
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1272
Joined: August 27th, 2004, 8:05 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post by Rhuvaen » August 25th, 2007, 12:50 pm

appleide wrote:I'd reckon I need to make the map around 25% as small. I guess I will have to do that... I have played an example game where berserk has been taken off. Its... taken me 90 turns even though it was all against the AI who was supposedly crippled.
Perhaps not when the teleport is working. :) I'll definitely try this when I get 1.3.7 or the svn revision installed.

Also I think this caters to specific tastes, and it is game that has a bigger, more epic scope than a 2v2... so perhaps it's justified to be lengthy. Another idea could be to introduce other victory conditions than kill all the leaders - something like conquering certain locations, or controlling a certain number of continents (because chasing leaders around can be lengthy if there's a lot of room to hide).

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3984
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Post by Velensk » August 25th, 2007, 1:28 pm

You know an Era of Myths, or other usermade era version of this could be realy interesting.

EDIT: Having tried playing it against myself I noted a few bugs.

The first bug I noticed was that tring to national build a tentical of the deep crashes the game.
The second bug I noticed was that when I tried loading the auto-save a bug message was showen, but it loaded anyway. However when I tried to national recruit, the list showed up as a bunch of commas.

Suggestions for the map part of the senario:
- currently most of your territories are marked by water which is quite abundant making flying and swimming units very powerfull, I would recomend that you join some islands but mark the borders with some type of terrain (like road or dirt or something)
- I think that some of the mountians in your mountian territories ought to change to hills for purposes of both balancing and realism
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3984
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Post by Velensk » August 26th, 2007, 7:45 pm

Having played a bit further I'd like to make a couple comments.

-Consitering how quickly units die, and how wide the battle fronts tend to be I would recomend increasing the amount of income people get somehow for even if you have 7 countries under your power that is still olny 23 gold to spread over a wide battle front.
- I once saved up for a couple turns ran a bat around my enemies captured the "critical" village recruited a bunch of lvl 0s and ran over all the enemy forces in a territory almost instantly, this seems like a rather silly thing to be able to do.
-leaders take forever to kill
-the units your leaders recruit (especialy ones lacking a ranged attack) die instanly to the one's just spawned.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

User avatar
appleide
Posts: 1003
Joined: November 8th, 2003, 10:03 pm
Location: Sydney,OZ

Post by appleide » September 1st, 2007, 3:12 am

I have uploaded an update. See first post.

Weeksy
Posts: 1016
Joined: January 29th, 2007, 1:05 am
Location: Oregon

Post by Weeksy » September 1st, 2007, 4:28 am

Goblin Rider isn't a unit, you either want Goblin Pillager or Goblin Knight
If enough people bang their heads against a brick wall, The brick wall will fall down

User avatar
appleide
Posts: 1003
Joined: November 8th, 2003, 10:03 pm
Location: Sydney,OZ

Post by appleide » September 1st, 2007, 8:29 am

Weeksy wrote:Goblin Rider isn't a unit, you either want Goblin Pillager or Goblin Knight
:oops: I was changing the knight to a wolf rider... but forgot to change 'goblin' or its cost. updated now.

PingPangQui
Posts: 267
Joined: July 18th, 2006, 11:52 am

Post by PingPangQui » September 3rd, 2007, 8:28 am

Velensk wrote:Suggestions for the map part of the senario:
- currently most of your territories are marked by water which is quite abundant making flying and swimming units very powerfull, I would recomend that you join some islands but mark the borders with some type of terrain (like road or dirt or something)
- I think that some of the mountians in your mountian territories ought to change to hills for purposes of both balancing and realism
Hm I don't think that there is to much water in total - marine units will have a pretty hard time in the north - one can easily zoc their water path which makes them realy immobile.
Choosing a poorly accessable terrain as borders is just natural and logical. Thus if you want to change water to sth. else, thán mountains or sand are more appropriate than dirt or road, imho. Of course that would favour flying units - but hey what do they fly for. In case you really need to block flying units, you can use impassable mountains.
The Clan Antagonist.

"Larry the Cow was a bit frustrated at the current state of Linux distributions (...) until he tried Gentoo Linux" - Free Software for free people.

User avatar
appleide
Posts: 1003
Joined: November 8th, 2003, 10:03 pm
Location: Sydney,OZ

Post by appleide » September 7th, 2007, 5:57 am

PingPangQui wrote:
Velensk wrote:Suggestions for the map part of the senario:
- currently most of your territories are marked by water which is quite abundant making flying and swimming units very powerfull, I would recomend that you join some islands but mark the borders with some type of terrain (like road or dirt or something)
- I think that some of the mountians in your mountian territories ought to change to hills for purposes of both balancing and realism
Hm I don't think that there is to much water in total - marine units will have a pretty hard time in the north - one can easily zoc their water path which makes them realy immobile.
Choosing a poorly accessable terrain as borders is just natural and logical. Thus if you want to change water to sth. else, thán mountains or sand are more appropriate than dirt or road, imho. Of course that would favour flying units - but hey what do they fly for. In case you really need to block flying units, you can use impassable mountains.
I have added more water to the north, and added sea units. Sea units are typically cheaper than Land units of the same power due to having less mobility.

I have removed berserk, yet to see how that goes. Teleport works now.

Seems like people do not notice this major feature of the scenario: You can change teams while playing. This could mean your ally is fighting someone who is your ally too. To make allies, right click on that player's units and click "Diplomacy". A dialog comes up and you can set it as ally or enemy or give him 10 gold. If that player sets you as ally too, at the end of that player's turn you will be allies. Advantages are in terms of ZOC and healing only. If either player wants to break alliance they can set the other as enemy and it will enact at end of turn. This prevents 1 turn backstabs.

I am thinking about adding this to normal ffa wesnoth maps such as Forest of fear.

Post Reply