solidifying the Void

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SkeletonCrew
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Post by SkeletonCrew »

mog wrote:The main problem we currently have, is the painting bug in the top row. It's probably a matching problem with WML like this

Code: Select all

     map="
, *
* , *
, 1
* , *
, *"
not working when part of the "map"-parameter are outside the map.
This needs to be fixed in every case. No proposal would magically fix this bug, though 2) might (depending on the actual implementation) push the bug to the border where it wouldn't matter that much.
Zookeeper also hinted at that this might be the cause for the top row glitches. I think it can and should be solved in C++.

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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar »

Eleazar wrote:OK, based on the discussion so far, here and on IRC, i'm going to attempt to list what's generally agreed needs to change:

• Due to issues with villages, and tall units standing on raised terrain on the top row getting cropped off, animations spilling off the edges, and the general tackiness of cramming important stuff into the edges of the screen, there should be some (approx. 72 px) padding beyond the playable area of the map.

• When the map+padding is smaller than the screen, (in either or both axes) the map will be centered in the middle of the map area. The background beyond the map will have some sort of texture, probably definable by WML.
OK, i think we have an additional point of general agreement:

• If any partial hexes are used, they should be specifically designated in the map, (preferably in a way that doesn't require a change to the map format). In other words, i don't see anyone still arguing that some sort of half-hex should be automatically generated.

Which allows the following implementation:
  • Stage 1
    • automatically generated half-hexes are removed
    • a non-map background is added
    • padding is added
    • to allow any map shape, any hex can be designated "non-map"
    • transitions between map hexes and the non-map can be generated using normal terrain WML
  • Stage 2
    • discussion of how, (if at all) partial hexes will be added to the outside of the map.
    • implementation.
This allows progress while disputed details are worked out.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

Becephalus
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Post by Becephalus »

As one of the map people I can say this is something that would help the aesthetics of most maps immensly.
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle

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esr
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Give us back our half-hexes!

Post by esr »

I've now seen Mordante's proof-of-concept in trunk, with the woodgrain and the ragged border.

The woodgrain background is OK but I think the ragged border looks awful. Ugly. Distracting. Give us back our half-hexes!

I don't have a position on whether they should be autogenerated or how they should be specified. I'd be OK with the display engine trimming the outermost row of hexes on the map, if it came to that. But where we currently seem to be going with this sucks. IMO.

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zookeeper
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Re: Give us back our half-hexes!

Post by zookeeper »

esr wrote:But where we currently seem to be going with this sucks. IMO.
I quite frankly have no idea what this something towards which we seem to be going would be. The details are undecided, which is somewhat evident. AFAIK no one wants the current ragged terrain edges.

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Eleazar
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Re: Give us back our half-hexes!

Post by Eleazar »

zookeeper wrote:
esr wrote:But where we currently seem to be going with this sucks. IMO.
I quite frankly have no idea what this something towards which we seem to be going would be. The details are undecided, which is somewhat evident. AFAIK no one wants the current ragged terrain edges.
I have no intention of leaving things as they are.
I'm not sure what you mean by "ragged edge" if you refer to the way terrains transition out into nothing, then that's something i don't especially like either.

Development happens in stages. Currently i have some RL things going on and probably won't be able to tackle this for a week or 2.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

Ok, just documenting a variation on my earlier fadeout idea here.

Basically the rectangular fadeout, but sitting on top of a ragged parchment (not unlike that of the HttT map in style).
Attachments
border-parchment-mockup.jpg
border-parchment-mockup.jpg (47.11 KiB) Viewed 5507 times

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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar »

Sorry, that i've mostly left this hanging, but stuff keeps happening. On vacation a few days ago, my computer died.

i'll just repeat that any good solution IMHO must work with non-rectangular maps, especially hex shaped maps, and preferably irregular shapes.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

Eleazar wrote:i'll just repeat that any good solution IMHO must work with non-rectangular maps, especially hex shaped maps, and preferably irregular shapes.
Maps can never be non-rectangular, and AFAIK there aren't even plans to allow this. What is possible is to just allow using the border/background terrains in the editor to make the map appear to be non-rectangular (I do think this is an important distinction), and any system for doing the borders would/should very easily adapt to these situations as we'd define the borders in WML. I wouldn't worry about it much.

In my latest sketch, the map could just as well be non-rectangular, and the parchment could or could not be rectangular.

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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar »

zookeeper wrote:
Eleazar wrote:i'll just repeat that any good solution IMHO must work with non-rectangular maps, especially hex shaped maps, and preferably irregular shapes.
Maps can never be non-rectangular, and AFAIK there aren't even plans to allow this. What is possible is to just allow using the border/background terrains in the editor to make the map appear to be non-rectangular (I do think this is an important distinction), and any system for doing the borders would/should very easily adapt to these situations as we'd define the borders in WML. I wouldn't worry about it much.

In my latest sketch, the map could just as well be non-rectangular, and the parchment could or could not be rectangular.
I mean, Maps-- as presented to the player on the screen.
Did you really think i meant that the map data should come in non-rectangular shapes?
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

Eleazar wrote:
zookeeper wrote: Maps can never be non-rectangular, and AFAIK there aren't even plans to allow this. What is possible is to just allow using the border/background terrains in the editor to make the map appear to be non-rectangular (I do think this is an important distinction), and any system for doing the borders would/should very easily adapt to these situations as we'd define the borders in WML. I wouldn't worry about it much.

In my latest sketch, the map could just as well be non-rectangular, and the parchment could or could not be rectangular.
I mean, Maps-- as presented to the player on the screen.
Did you really think i meant that the map data should come in non-rectangular shapes?
Ok, you're right, that would be a really silly assumption. Nevermind!

SkeletonCrew
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Post by SkeletonCrew »

I added a proof-of-concept to trunk see http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?rev=18572&view=rev

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