Traitor's Island 2v2 (Version 5)

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Sapient
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Traitor's Island 2v2 (Version 5)

Post by Sapient » December 1st, 2006, 4:40 am

I'm looking for feedback on this crazy little map. It is an attempt to recreate an old 2v2 map that I enjoyed a lot. If you know the old one, please post it.

Be aware that this map plays very differently than it looks, so don't offer any critiques until you've had a chance to test it on MP, please.

(edit - version 5)
[map]W





c c cc
ccgcgcccTcc
c?UcTmGTIcTcc
cchTGI]Gl]EahIPcc
cDIGXggggggggh1Ic
c32GggggqggXGGI4c
cwPJTTa]c]DTIJwUc
ccIIhcgfcgTcccc
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W[/map]

Teams are 1 and 4 vs 2 and 3
The settings are 70% EXP and Age of Heroes era
Each side should have 50 starting gold.

(Note: if you use Default era on this map Northerners are considered weak and Drakes slightly too powerful. It is balanced for Age of Heroes.)

Have Fun!
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4p_Traitors_Island.cfg
version 5
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Last edited by Sapient on December 9th, 2006, 11:05 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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JW
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Post by JW » December 1st, 2006, 4:49 am

Go Rebels!! (Haven't playtested)

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Post by Glowing Fish » December 1st, 2006, 5:36 am

Just looking at that map, my crazy talk alarm is going BEEP BEEP BEEP!
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Post by Becephalus » December 1st, 2006, 10:37 am

ok then.... :)
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Post by Oreb » December 1st, 2006, 11:15 am

Really Interesting Map, when I played it, nothing bad really happened.
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new

Post by new » December 1st, 2006, 12:10 pm

This isn't a symmetric map :evil: and the map is to small :evil: .
(stupid map, sry)

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Post by Sapient » December 1st, 2006, 12:16 pm

It's supposed to be a crazy little map. That's the whole point... anyways--

If team1 gets the same number of villages as team2 and they have equal defensive/offensive opportunities, then the map doesn't have to be symmetric! In other words, the map is intentionally asymmetric. Nonetheless, I may have to adjust a few hexes to normalize defensive/offensive opportunities.

Mainly, I am interested to know if there are any faction problems. Are undead too weak? Are Rebels overpowered? You don't know for sure until you test it. As I said, the map plays differently than it looks. Glancing at it and calling it stupid doesn't really help me. I'm sure you mean well, though.
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Post by JW » December 1st, 2006, 1:55 pm

new wrote:This isn't a symmetric map :evil: and the map is to small :evil: .
(stupid map, sry)
Totally not helpful. At all.

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Post by Baufo » December 1st, 2006, 1:55 pm

I have played it against AI. I was Dwarves the AI Rebels. Well, usually I do beat the AI easily, even if it gets the double amount of money but here I have really had difficulties.
There is forest in key positions, forest near to villages, forest everywhere. Not a single hill/mountain hex near the middle, just next to the castles where no fight will never take place. I suggest changing at least 2 of the central forest hexes to hills and 1 to mountain.

Generally I think it's an interesting concept, although it might take quite a while with 100 starting gold so I think that 25 is more than enough here.
Sapient wrote:Glancing at it and calling it stupid doesn't really help me.
I think I will translate this to German to make sure some users understand it:
"Lediglich einen kurzen Blick auf die Karte zu werfen und sie dann dumm zu heißen, hilft mir kaum weiter."
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new

Post by new » December 1st, 2006, 2:08 pm

JW wrote:
new wrote:This isn't a symmetric map :evil: and the map is to small :evil: .
(stupid map, sry)
Totally not helpful. At all.
Yes, sure. But when this his first created map is, then it isn't too bad ^^. I think the baddest of the map is, that you can only one soldier recruit pro turn, when the other go away. Also: More castle terrain, map must be symmetric and balancing and a little be bigger when it go.

That was all. :)

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Post by Doc Paterson » December 1st, 2006, 2:18 pm

This is actually much more balanced than 99 percent of the maps that users post on the forums. (I guess this is saying more about the general balance of user maps than this particular map's balance, but really, this one is not really all that bad.)

New, you ought not to comment on other people's maps- I've never seen anything from you that was even remotely balanced for any combination of the factions. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's awfully presumptuous of you to be calling someone else's map "stupid."

Yes, Undead and Drakes will need a bit of a hand up- It's going to be tricky getting it right for the Drakes, as they don't have very far to run. Perhaps more sand, perhaps another lava hex or two. I'd also cut some forest, and add at least two mountains.

I've seen this concept before, where one leader has to move off of his starting hex for the other leader to recruit, and I do like it- It's very fun and playful. :)
Last edited by Doc Paterson on December 1st, 2006, 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Baufo » December 1st, 2006, 2:30 pm

Doc Paterson wrote: New, you ought not to comment on other people's maps- I've never seen anything from you that was even remotely balanced for any combination of the factions. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's awfully presumptuous of you to be calling someone else's map "stupid."
New, do solltest nicht die Karten anderer kommentieren - I habe noch nie irgendetwas von dir gesehen, dass auch nur im Entferntesten für irgendeine Kombination von Fraktionen ausbalanciert war. Es tut mir leid wenn dies hart klingt, aber es ist schrecklich überheblich von dir, die Karten eines anderen "dumm" zu nennen.
It's so comfortable just to sit there and quote and never take the responsibility for the flame war :twisted:
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Post by Sapient » December 1st, 2006, 3:10 pm

Doc Paterson wrote: Yes, Undead and Drakes will need a bit of a hand up- It's going to be tricky getting it right for the Drakes, as they don't have very far to run. Perhaps more sand, perhaps another lava hex or two. I'd also cut some forest, and add at least two mountains.
Believe it or not, I tried it with drakes and they did just fine. The advantage of drakes is that you can recruit a powerful, expensive unit each turn.

I'm more concerned about Undead.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Post by Doc Paterson » December 1st, 2006, 6:59 pm

Sapient wrote:
Doc Paterson wrote: Yes, Undead and Drakes will need a bit of a hand up- It's going to be tricky getting it right for the Drakes, as they don't have very far to run. Perhaps more sand, perhaps another lava hex or two. I'd also cut some forest, and add at least two mountains.
Believe it or not, I tried it with drakes and they did just fine. The advantage of drakes is that you can recruit a powerful, expensive unit each turn.

I'm more concerned about Undead.

Thanks for the feedback.
In regards to Drakes doing fine- I think that'd depend greatly on their leader and/or teammate faction. Yes, they can recruit expensive units, and that'll help against Undead, but Loys can still pull Horsemen to finish half-HP drakes almost anywhere on the map (and of course it's more expensive than any Drake unit).

The map is nice and fun like I said, but it's never going to be perfectly balanced, as we obviously don't balance factions on a one-unit per turn basis, and assume a normal (full/multiple) recruit. You'll also likely have a much higher than normal ratio of wild games, with there being fewer total combats.

EDIT- I'd also recommend taking those fort hexes away from their village-adjacent spots. Again probably too rough for Drakes against Loys.

Some testing with Double Loy vs. Double Drake might be good.
Last edited by Doc Paterson on December 1st, 2006, 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
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Re: Traitor's Island 2v2

Post by Ardonik » December 2nd, 2006, 9:50 pm

Sapient wrote:I'm looking for feedback on this crazy little map. It is an attempt to recreate an old 2v2 map that I enjoyed a lot. If you know the old one, please post it.
Are you referring to Rhuvaen's Island of Fury? The teams are also 1 and 4 vs. 2 and 3.

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WWWcccZGkkkkHQSGrfn\ccWWW
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WWcc4\wfGGLQkkfkdGGcnccWW
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[/map]

It's a fun little map, even at 1 gold per village. I'd love to see it included in the main distribution.

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