Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Finally made transitions for UtBS's dark floor, so now it is now mainlined.
Not amazing transitions, but they will seldom be seen.

The transition-less custom version is still wired into UtBS.
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Jetrel »

Eleazar wrote:This was a lot harder than expected.

Finally found colors for the dry hills that mesh with the dirt and dry grass, and yet don't look odd with other terrain.
Yeah, that's the pain of videogame terrain. The number of combinations that have to work well together increases exponentially with the number of terrain types. :augh:


That looks good, btw.
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Current state of dry-to-mountain transitions
Image

there are some layering glitches
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Fixed the lack of lava-to-chasm transition use pointed out by Anonymissimus.
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Now we have default castle to lava chasm transitions.

Kinda cool looking if i say so myself.
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Jetrel »

Eleazar wrote:Now we have default castle to lava chasm transitions.

Kinda cool looking if i say so myself.
Plus, the transitions between "the castle trans w/ lava underneath" and "the castle trans with chasm underneath" seem to transition smoothly enough together. There's a tiny bit of a seam, but it almost seems to mesh with the natural protrusions on the rock. Frankly, I think that aspect looks good enough not to waste effort on.

:hmm: Seeing the orc castle on top of that makes me think it might be worth shifting the orc-castle's rocks to the color of the underlying stone. Just a thought.
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by doofus-01 »

Jetrel wrote:There's a tiny bit of a seam, but it almost seems to mesh with the natural protrusions on the rock
If you are refereing to the "dirt-skirt" of the bottom-right orc rock tower, I think Eleazar wants that removed anyway. (And I'll do that once 1.9 comes out.)
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Jetrel wrote:
Eleazar wrote:Now we have default castle to lava chasm transitions.

Kinda cool looking if i say so myself.
Plus, the transitions between "the castle trans w/ lava underneath" and "the castle trans with chasm underneath" seem to transition smoothly enough together. There's a tiny bit of a seam, but it almost seems to mesh with the natural protrusions on the rock. Frankly, I think that aspect looks good enough not to waste effort on.
These transitions have overlapping semi-transparent edges so they can blend together, which i don't think has been done for terrain before. Otherwise you would get a razor sharp seam.

Jetrel wrote: :hmm: Seeing the orc castle on top of that makes me think it might be worth shifting the orc-castle's rocks to the color of the underlying stone. Just a thought.
I want to move away from the pure grey colors that used to be used for much of wesnoth's stone. I've injected a bit more brown into the chasm, and would like to add a little more to some of the cave stuff. Adding it to the orc castle would fit right in.

doofus-01 wrote:
Jetrel wrote:There's a tiny bit of a seam, but it almost seems to mesh with the natural protrusions on the rock
If you are refereing to the "dirt-skirt" of the bottom-right orc rock tower, I think Eleazar wants that removed anyway. (And I'll do that once 1.9 comes out.)
The stress test for "is this castle too wide?" will be how it fits with the land-to water transitions. The dirt skirt doesn't' fit as is. I'm not against it in principle, thought if there was room for it, it would need to blend into the terrain more transparently.

Why would you wait until after 1.9 comes out? Do you need a compiled version?


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I think i may have put out some mixed signals on what sort of feedback would be useful. I'll try to clarify.

* All new/altered terrains: the basic color-scheme/texture. In many cases transitions are minimal

* Water to Flat: Full scrutiny, with the understanding that the transition set isn't complete.

* Etherial Abyss and Castle-to-Chasm: Full scrutiny. I have nothing more planned for these.

There are a billion terrain combinations, and i can't see them all. So when in doubt, let me know about glitches/issues. Just don't be miffed if i don't immediately fix it.
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Since i called the Abyss done, i had to go and actually finish it-- i.e. give it transitions with the normal chasm.

While i was messing with that WML, i added in shroud (_s), void, (Xv), and off-map (_off^_usr) to the list of things to use the base chasm/abyss transition with.

That's void in the bottom of the image. You used to get a cliff edge between chasm and void.

But i seldom see maps that use these three terrains. They all look the same in the editor-- pure black).

Can anyone tell me what the differences it? I know what shroud is in a MP game, but i don't understand why it needs to be a terrain type in the editor.
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Iris »

Void (Xv) is used in non-rectangular MP maps such as Isar's Cross, but Shroud and Fog are intended for exclusive use in building terrain masks for use with WML.

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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Preview of the mountains to chasm transitions.

It seems snow mountains don't play as nicely with chasms.

It's also unfortunate that the mountains get really small in all dimensions when next to a chasm.
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by doofus-01 »

I was looking at the castle transitions, and wonder if certain transitions won't look bad no matter what footprint they are made to have. For example, would points A and E look good if they fit the standard transition better? I don't believe they would. Points A and D would need a different chasm type (sandstone and ice?) to not look like they were pasted on there. I could give that a shot, using the current chasm as a model. I realize variants of terrain types could cause the amount of required transitions to explode, but I don't think winter/chasm and sand/chasm transitions should cause that. There wouldn't need to be lava variants at least.

Point B and maybe even point C can be adjusted, I will do that.

I noticed the cobbles & dirt of the winter castle types are now the same as the regular versions, that was intentional? The snow now looks more pasted on, especially on the orc castle.
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

doofus-01 wrote:I was looking at the castle transitions, and wonder if certain transitions won't look bad no matter what footprint they are made to have. For example, would points A and E look good if they fit the standard transition better? I don't believe they would.
I'm not clear on weather points A & E include the whole hex + trans, or a particular part. If we're talking about the whole thing, than it seems pretty obvious that it would look better if it had the right footprint. There would be a visible bank transition between castle and water for E -- eventually animated, and the leftmost tower of A wouldn't be floating on air.
doofus-01 wrote:Points A and D would need a different chasm type (sandstone and ice?) to not look like they were pasted on there. I could give that a shot, using the current chasm as a model. I realize variants of terrain types could cause the amount of required transitions to explode, but I don't think winter/chasm and sand/chasm transitions should cause that. There wouldn't need to be lava variants at least.
A chasm lightly with some ice and snow on it, especially at the top would be useful. Don't completely cover it with snow or it won't tile well with normal chasm. I'd want to make this an automatic used when next to a frozen hex (if possible).

Don't make a sandstone chasm. Depending on some things now up in the air, it's rather likely that i'll lighten all cave terrains (including chasm) as described here. The need for an additional color of chasm can be evaluated then.

doofus-01 wrote:I noticed the cobbles & dirt of the winter castle types are now the same as the regular versions, that was intentional? The snow now looks more pasted on, especially on the orc castle.
Totally intentional. There are a lot of flat terrains to choose from and i may have a few more in the works. If the map-maker wants to match the inside and outside base he can, if he doesn't want to he doesn't' have to.

As for the complaint about snow looking "more pasted on", i think your memory is playing tricks. The previous orc dirt was darker and redder. It would have contrasted with the snow more aburptly than the current base.
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by doofus-01 »

Eleazar wrote:A chasm lightly with some ice and snow on it, especially at the top would be useful. Don't completely cover it with snow or it won't tile well with normal chasm. I'd want to make this an automatic used when next to a frozen hex (if possible).
So, basically more like the winter human castle, rather than the ice/water transition. I think I can do that this week.
Eleazar wrote:As for the complaint about snow looking "more pasted on", i think your memory is playing tricks. The previous orc dirt was darker and redder. It would have contrasted with the snow more aburptly than the current base.
My memory was a bit rosier than reality, but this is what I was referring to:http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=413654#p413654
The hex color was different for the winter and regular castles.

EDIT: It's not complete, but is this along the right lines?
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winter-chasms-shot1.png
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

doofus-01 wrote:EDIT: It's not complete, but is this along the right lines?
[/quote]
Yeah that's the idea.
It would be best if you can keep your layered file, so if/when the basic chasm is darkened, and/or color-shifted we can do that without effecting the snow.


Also i adjusted the snow-hill trans so they aren't huge and squarish
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