Modular RPG Era

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Bob_The_Mighty
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Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

ok, it worked after i got it from the add-ons.

here goes....


bulging doesn't have a d in it.

the first morality option seems to have two descriptions

since it is in past tense, the third option should say "reward offer was real"

weapons screen: it says OK/OK in the last column of the last row.

it wouldn't let me upgrade hitpoints to level 2 even though i had 9 build points, and it said it only cost 8.

Equipped has a double 'p'.

Couldn't the names of the weapons that are not being used be coloured red, and the active weapon remain white. After selecting the weapon i want to use, it should go back to the previous screen (so you don't have to press 'back'). Same with switching armour.

The lob and bludgeon (and other weapons types) option descriptions are crammed up on the right-hand side; in their place is a huge bunch of random data such as: 'MIME-Version: 1.0', and 'X-Poedit-Language: English'. This makes all the options huge and means the dialogue box fills the entire screen.

besides that all the lists look much nicer.:P

I tend to put the 'finish' or 'done' option at the top of menus, because it always goes to the top after selecting something. Maybe that's not so much of an issue when the option box isn't MASSIVE.

I managed to get a magic attack without ever opting for red or white, i just spent it all on speed and power.

What does 'natural' mean on the character sheet? If it means what I think it means, why do i need to know that stat? (it makes the character sheet look very confusing, the terrain bit in particular).

at the top of the main 'upgrade' list, maybe show it like:
build: x (x)
skill: x (x)
mind: x (x)

The character sheet looks ugly in general. Did you do it as a list, cos it didn't fit onto a normal dialogue box? It seems to contain a lot of info that is already visible on the player's screen. Is it really necessary to include stuff like hitpoints and gold? Even the weapons would be visible on the right-hand panel if you used the [redraw] tag. The bonus of seeing your unit stats on the same screen during upgrading outweighs the benefits of the 'cancel changes' option I reckon.

Why allow me to buy multiple leggings/helmets/etc? Do they wear out? Or can I set up a little market stall when I get to Lord Falcon's castle?

Why do you not start wearing the armour you bought? Why not include the armour resistances in the option description when it asks you which armour you want to don?

Overall, it is fun to mess around with, though it is still pretty damn complicated. I have to admit I set about trying to abuse the system and make stupid characters, but the increasing costs stopped me. That's a good touch.

the infiltration of random data is a big bug, but it's probably easily fixed. not being able to see the changes on the right-hand panel is something that i’d really like cos it is easy to forget how much damage and attacks you’ve bought - and going to the character sheet takes too long.

nice one, ken oh.
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Ken_Oh
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Post by Ken_Oh »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote:weapons screen: it says OK/OK in the last column of the last row.
It caused a crash if I didn't have enough text in that table. When (or if) I pinpoint what exactly the problem is, I'll file a bug report. I think having the right-most tables. Of course, it would be better to just add a transparent image there or something, but I haven't figured that out yet.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:it wouldn't let me upgrade hitpoints to level 2 even though i had 9 build points, and it said it only cost 8.


Did you have 8 Build? I know I didn't specify this, but every stat requirement is the same as the point cost (but sometimes there are extra stat requirements). I'm trying to figure out a better way of saying that than putting "Cost: 6 Mind, prereq: 6 Mind" every time, but nothing has come up so far.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:Couldn't the names of the weapons that are not being used be coloured red, and the active weapon remain white. After selecting the weapon i want to use, it should go back to the previous screen (so you don't have to press 'back'). Same with switching armour.
This bugs me too. The problem for this is with Dual/Triple Wield, when you're going to have more than one weapon at a time. Though, I guess I could make it automatic for those who don't have Dual/Triple Wield.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:I tend to put the 'finish' or 'done' option at the top of menus, because it always goes to the top after selecting something. Maybe that's not so much of an issue when the option box isn't MASSIVE.
I decided to put it at the bottom solely because I thought it saved time to have more options visible from the start. I'll leave that one on the table and will decide on it later.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:I managed to get a magic attack without ever opting for red or white, i just spent it all on speed and power.
Wait, but did you choose magical initiate? That's a school of magic in itself and it just gives magic missile. If you never chose magical initiate, however, then there's a problem.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:What does 'natural' mean on the character sheet? If it means what I think it means, why do i need to know that stat? (it makes the character sheet look very confusing, the terrain bit in particular).

The character sheet looks ugly in general. Did you do it as a list, cos it didn't fit onto a normal dialogue box? It seems to contain a lot of info that is already visible on the player's screen. Is it really necessary to include stuff like hitpoints and gold? Even the weapons would be visible on the right-hand panel if you used the [redraw] tag. The bonus of seeing your unit stats on the same screen during upgrading outweighs the benefits of the 'cancel changes' option I reckon.
Right, the character sheet is really incomplete. And, yes, I couldn't fit it all so I had to make options out of it. Honestly, I all wanted really to do is show terrain stats, and resistances, since you can't see a unit description with that information anywhere.

I didn't really know about [redraw]'s effects that you're describing, but now that I do, you've given me the perfect idea. I could store a super unit variable at the start of everything and unstore that if the user wants to cancel. That way both ways can work.

Then I'll leave the terrain stuff, like evade and everything, in the switch armour option menu.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:Why allow me to buy multiple leggings/helmets/etc? Do they wear out? Or can I set up a little market stall when I get to Lord Falcon's castle?
Just for flexibility's sake. It was easier to do that than prevent it (though, I made a "are you sure?" screen), just in case later I give the ability to drop or give items.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:I have to admit I set about trying to abuse the system and make stupid characters, but the increasing costs stopped me. That's a good touch.
This is the part I'm most proud of. Coming up with system to emulate mainline was my best show of smarts in the project. The rest was just grunt work.

I'll have to check into all the bugs and typos. I appreciate you taking a look.

EDIT: I updated the version with a lot of stuff you suggested.

-all the [redraw] stuff added but still kept the ability to cancel
-character sheet done away with (haven't yet put the info in the armor section)
-shop's end option at the top
-players can choose to put on their armor right from the start
-a lot of upgrade options either simpler or clearer (it tells you what magic attacks you get when you choose the order)
-spelling fixes
-teleport added for Silver Order mages. any village that the teleporting unit or any unit on its side has ever moveto'd during the scenario, the mage can teleport to.

And, with teleport, the era now supports every mainline human aspect except lichdom (this will need consideration), mounts (this will need a large amount of work) and conceals (this might not ever go in).

One thing I didn't change is the location of the "end" button on the upgrades screen. I tried it for a while, but the problem I have with it at the top is I'm always at the bottom when I decide to find the button. The way choosing upgrades goes, you are (or at least I am) likely to scroll through one last time to make sure there's no more points I can spend.

OK/OK is still there, as the problem still exists.

Bob: If you've got any specific info on the "infiltration of random data," please tell me. I'm not quite sure what it looks like from your description. On 2 machines I haven't been able to get that bug.

EDIT #2: New version.

-Evade and resistances now shown at the top of "Switch Armour" option menu and scrapped all remnants of character sheet
-Fixed a defense bug where too much of it backfires
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Ken_Oh
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Post by Ken_Oh »

New version up. It turns out that frankensteining new unit sprites wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. So, there are 175 new .png files for use as unit graphics.

Unfortunately, the method I had to use makes the unit files rather massive when they're put into the scenario. It's advisable to :nosaves if you're using Windows. I think slower machines won't even be able to play this effectively at all. If anyone know a better way to do what I've done, I'd love to hear it.

Barring small tweaks (like renaming Build to Body) and bug fixes, I'm going to be working for a while on the next phase of the project. I intend to make an organic nation and town system where the map interacts with itself regardless if there is any input from players. Nations will have multiple towns, each put into a wealth class or specialization. A nation's capital will have strong military and commerce while villages may specialize in something (farming, fishing, smithing, etc.) and military outposts will border in key defensive locations.

A village will be comprised of probably only a handful of village-hexes. Each village-hex will heal like normal but will be un-capture-able (they'll actually be a custom terrain) and will have its own "families" population and gold stats. When a whole village is under attack, it will start to recruit units, at the cost of population and gold. If an enemy unit that occupies that hex for a round, it will decrease that village-hex's stats (maybe same race will only take gold, opposite race will take gold and population and certain Undead units can turn the population into WCs). Village-hexes can be destroyed but the AI will also build village-hexes if there is overcrowding and enough resources.

The immediate goal is the make a living system where you can put the AI against itself and then watch as the cities grow, Orcs and Human bandits raid supply trains, Undead roll through with a WC plague and Human townspeople put up a resistance force.

After that will be a system where players can interact with all this by choosing sides, visiting markets, interacting with generated NPCs and recruiting from non-standard locations.
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major_sephiroth
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Post by major_sephiroth »

Hey Ken, Awesome work on the modular RPG.
I have made some elvish guys that I thought might help you (Frankenstined of course)
Armour types:
Basic, i.e. clothes
Rider, I was bored
Heavy Armour
Each Armour type has:
Club
Falchion
Longbow
Staff
Longsword
Shortbow
Short Staff
Spear
Sword
Unarmed

That should be plenty of weapons, but probably not enough armours. If you want me to make more, just ask.

There is also some examples for lazy people.

EDIT: And sorry for the necro.
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Modular Elf.zip
The Pack
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As the title says, Heavy Armour Longsword
As the title says, Heavy Armour Longsword
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For those people who want a horse mage...
For those people who want a horse mage...
rider-longstaff.png (4.3 KiB) Viewed 4406 times
I don't think this guy is even strong enough to use that bow.
I don't think this guy is even strong enough to use that bow.
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Ken_Oh
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Post by Ken_Oh »

Much appreciated. While the torsos on the unarmored ones are a little small, resulting in the units being rather short, I think this is at least a great place to start. Thanks!
major_sephiroth
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Post by major_sephiroth »

Always willing to help :)
I've redone the basics and made a 'mystic' variant.
They have all the weapons the other ones do...

Anything else you need done? I'm VERY bored ATM :wink:

P.S. Still examples for lazy people.
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Theres always one that would end up with this elf.
Theres always one that would end up with this elf.
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A shorter bow :P
A shorter bow :P
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DraconicBlessing
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Re: Modular RPG Era

Post by DraconicBlessing »

It's been a while since I popped in here last, and the boards are all new and shiny!
Ken Oh, this looks fantastic, if I suddenly find myself with copious amounts of time on my hands (it could happen!) I may have to read through your WML and start working on some of the other races.

A couple of bugs I noticed:
  • I equipped a character as an intiate, boosted the power of his magic missle, then bought him the White Mage option. He lost all magical ranged attacks. Is there some way to re-equip weapons & equipment? Is this a bug or did I just miss something?
    After equipping one of my characters with one of the heavier armours, I notice his head/face changed. A minor thing, but it irked me somewhat.
    The inability to see some of the cool abilities (leadership, skirmish etc) until you can actually buy them seems a bit of a hindrance to me, and will lead to lots of trial and error in character creation. Is this a "design feature" or just a limitation?
Definitely looks like there's a hell of a lot of potential in this... very cool!
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Ken_Oh
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Re: Modular RPG Era

Post by Ken_Oh »

Thanks for the support. I've been partially distracted with other things and partially at a conceptual roadblock for town functions. I'm maybe making things too complicated to code, but it's all for my goal of making open-ended RPG scenarios while still having the ability to make linear ones too. Another part of me says I should just start making scenarios to show what the era can already do.

Losing the magic attack: The problem is that when you get introduced into the White Order, your magic attack is 5-0 arcane (the descript wrongly states: "Spell: light beam, 7-1 arcane, +2 dmg/casting power" this was changed in light of the new 3-attack spell that the mainline White units now have). So, if you don't have at least 1 level in casting speed, then your attack won't show up. I would put a requirement for the order to have at least one casting speed if it weren't for Paladins, who essentially gain the order for the healing and the arcane weapon but never get any casting use out of it (their armor would prevent any real damage on spells in the first place). I guess I could either put a small note saying that you won't get a spell without the required casting speed, but that would clutter up the upgrade screen even more. Or, I could just make sure the 5-0 attack shows up as 5-1. But, then people would be confused why their +1 casting speed level didn't give them another attack. I don't know, what do you think?

You're right. The skills should show up more. I was thinking that it would get annoying but it's actually more annoying to not see what you need to do. Just the other night I was playing around, making sure things worked with 1.4 and I couldn't figure out what I needed to level up in to gain poison on my throwing knives :? . I'll have to make sure there's a minimum requirement to see an option (i.e. you won't see what you need to get Marksman until you actually have some skill in bow). I'll write that down on my list right now.

I've done a little bit of the conceptual work for different races. If you'd really like to help, I'd be happy to receive it. Just tell me what you're interested in doing and I can lay out the code structure, the plans and the room for creativity.
starsnostars
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Re: Modular RPG Era

Post by starsnostars »

hi there! I've just registered to report a bug I've found with your amazing rpg era. when you build your character, and afterwards, when asked whether you want to keep him or discard him and do the latter, apparently all stats are reset except the life total of the character. this way its possible to cheat and repeatedly pump all your points into body and health+, discard your character and start over. this way it is possible to start with a very high life total.

and I have a question too: what are the requirements for a character to have poisoned daggers?
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Ken_Oh
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Re: Modular RPG Era

Post by Ken_Oh »

Cool, thanks. It does some really weird things sometimes when you discard the character, like duplicates the character completely, but I haven't been able to find anything specific. I'll look into the HP bug then.

Poison: Required: 6 Mind, Thrown Light Blades Power: 2, Cost: 6 Mind Points

And, you have to have backstab. Like I said above, I'll make that info available before having all the requirements.
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Neoskel
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Re: Modular RPG Era

Post by Neoskel »

Just a niggle, and not sure if you've already fixed it but the 'deft' attribute should be dexterity or dex for short.

This is a very cool idea. Do you need any particular sprites?
DraconicBlessing
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Re: Modular RPG Era

Post by DraconicBlessing »

Neoskel wrote:Just a niggle, and not sure if you've already fixed it but the 'deft' attribute should be dexterity or dex for short.

This is a very cool idea. Do you need any particular sprites?
Why? That's just a very common characteristic/abbreviation in RPGs. There's nothing wrong with Deft - it and dextrous are synonyms.
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Ken_Oh
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Re: Modular RPG Era

Post by Ken_Oh »

Meh, I've got a penchant for using non-standard terms, but maybe it's all too confusing. I already went from Build to Body without too much pain, so I'll think about it.
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Re: Modular RPG Era

Post by DraconicBlessing »

Body's not a particularly common term either. Stick with deft I say!
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Dovolente
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Post by Dovolente »

So I finally got around to downloading this, and I'm kicking myself for not checking it earlier. This is mindblowing stuff, and the complexity and quality are staggering! Seriously, I'm amazed. I absolute love it. I'm thinking about playing with a randomly generated rogue/nethack/angband-like dungeoncrawl for this... :)

One suggestion for the era is that, as players new to the era or finer aspects of Wesnoth may not appreciate the ability to customize every aspect of the character at first, there be an initial option to do the complete customization -or- choose a basic profession. If one chooses the profession (soldier, cleric, thief, sorcerer, barbarian, whatever....), a character is set up with starting abilities, attributes, and gear and can begin play immediately.
Ken Oh wrote:...I'm going to be working for a while on the next phase of the project. I intend to make an organic nation and town system where the map interacts with itself regardless if there is any input from players. Nations will have multiple towns, each put into a wealth class or specialization. A nation's capital will have strong military and commerce while villages may specialize in something (farming, fishing, smithing, etc.) and military outposts will border in key defensive locations.
This sounds even more amazing. :) I'm looking forward to seeing how work on this progresses!
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