Temples of the nagas -version 1.25 (NEW MAINTAINER!)

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Kalis
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Post by Kalis »

Myth: about templars.
Yea realized that the 2nd time around :D
The first time I just targeted them with "hero units" (aka. item equipped), and spellcasters so they died without me realizing the specials :D

Suggestion: Would it be possible to add a random generator so the enemy units spawn in slightly randomized locations? As it is, you can figure out the exact range some units can reach and position accordingly on each wave.

About elvish bow:
yea the 4 movement (or 5 with quick) can be a killer. Especially since dwarves can't go into swamp.
It's a large part of why I prefer to put it on a quick burner. 11-6 at level 1, 12-7 at level 2, 13-8 at level 3, and 17-8 at level 4.

The damage is almost as good as the thunderer, and has that awesome movetype. :D Higher # of attacks also makes it much less risky on whether you get the kill or not, and burners can take out the undead temple guardians that spawn very easily.
CIB
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Post by CIB »

Mythological wrote:
CIB wrote:Look in Useful WML Fragments on the Wiki, there's a random trait macro there that can be used with pseudorandom.
I am aware of Elvish Pillager's {PSEUDORANDOM} and its use for generating random traits. To be honest, I am not a programmer and I am not sure even if I can implement it correctly, but I havent tried for a good reason - it works (I've tried it when EP tested his maps that used pseudorandom ), but it is very slow , even when there are few units involved. On a large map with many units it like TotN it would create a lag, similar to that one autosaves do and when the new wave is generated ( over 30 new units ) the game will freeze for at least 5 minutes, maybe even half an hour on slow computers. I think that slowing the game which already lasts long even without it would be a too big price to pay to get units with random traits. I am more interested in using {SEMIRANDOM} for the same purpose who is both faster and simpler, but I hate to steal other's code, especialy not from Lunar2 who is very sensitive about that matter.
Well, you could ask him. And you could only create a set of random numbers once and use them for the rest of the game - I really think that would be worth it, you could use it for what Kalis said, too. That map just has to be boring if there isn't some kind of randomness.
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Wintermute
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beat TotN on hardcore

Post by Wintermute »

I beat TotN on hardcore... but my replay is also corrupt. :cry:

The good news is it doesn't corrupt until turn 46 or 47, but the bad news is that I'm a moron! I was playing with nosaves, and I hadn't saved at all (since before the replay corrupts), so I have no verification. Oh well! I made some terrible mistakes sometime after turn 35ish, so I was just playing it out hastily a bit to see what the last waves were like and I ended up winning :lol:

I used the default era. I tried using random leaders a few times, but I kept getting frustrated with getting draws like 3 elf 1 loy, and 2 drake 2 undead (multiple times consecutively!). Not to knock them, I just wanted to mix it up a bit more. So I chose the elves (Captian) and the Knalgans (Thunderguard), and left the other 2 random (both UD).

All in all, very fun scenario. I thought that the naga guardians and the wave before were *much* harder than I had imagined, but I had some help from my friend the AI. :wink:

Great job jb, myth, and truper!
Attachments
REPLAY_-_Won_TotN.zip
Corrupt after turn 46-47, Wesnoth 1.3.1, TotN beta6
(130.53 KiB) Downloaded 446 times
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."
Kalis
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Post by Kalis »

hehe nice job wintermute!!! :D
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Mythological
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Post by Mythological »

Winermute : your replay was broken at turn 40 or so as you said yourself.
I opened the replay with a text editor and compared the killed units statistics in the replay with the number of the spawned units in the scenario. The numbers match which is enough to be sure that you've won it on hardcore and to put your name in the hall of fame. Not that I don't trust you but I had to do it to prevent future trouble. Congratulations !
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Wintermute
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Post by Wintermute »

Mythological wrote:The numbers match which is enough to be sure that you've won it on hardcore and to put your name in the hall of fame. Not that I don't trust you but I had to do it to prevent future trouble. Congratulations !
hehe, of course! Thanks, I didn't know of any way to check, so I had assumed that I would have to do it again.

The replay also didn't like the color changes, at least for me. after the first wave it changed differnt shades of rouge for the rest of it.
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Becephalus
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Post by Becephalus »

TUrn twelve wtih team HODOR (two trappers and two rogues with default era knalgans getting only outlaws). SO far I have lost a few lvl 1s and have many lvl 2s and a clear board. I also didn't know rule so my items are probably poorly distributed, but it is going well so far. HODOR HODOR!
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle
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Wintermute
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Post by Wintermute »

Becephalus wrote:TUrn twelve wtih team HODOR
I swear to you, that you cannot win. I hope that's all the motivation that you need! :wink:

But seriously, you can't do it :P

...

Really.
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Becephalus
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Post by Becephalus »

I am working 12 hours again today, not sure if I will have time to play any more waves today :(
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle
Clonkinator
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Post by Clonkinator »

Hm, I didn't know that the random trait-thing causes that much trouble in multiplayer. Well, I'll do my best at beating this map nevertheless. And the thing with the zerk-amulet: It is a really nice item, but if you lose it the scenario get's insanely hard to beat. And you usually lose it for sure if an AI-recruit collects it... :x But well, as I said, good work, keep making such good maps. :wink:
Identity
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Post by Identity »

Clonkinator wrote: And the thing with the zerk-amulet: It is a really nice item, but if you lose it the scenario get's insanely hard to beat. And you usually lose it for sure if an AI-recruit collects it... :x
The AI can't pick up artifacts. They can move units on top of them, but the item remains until a player's unit moves over it. Getting the zerk item on a very high movement unit generally ensures its survival and its use nearly every turn throughout the game.
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

I've found that a good unit to get the zerk special is a quick res drake fighter, possibly with movement special so It has a reasonable amount of hp, a killer attack, and 9 MP with 1 mp for any terrain except the cave terrain on the sides which is usually not fought on.
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Nosmos
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Post by Nosmos »

yep nice map :)
and you really dont have to play perfect to finish it
in our try (1 cuttlefish survived with half hp) drakes did die early and it still was very close
one thing i find a bit unbalanced is the -20 % cold res of the last wave
sure they are nagas but this really gives factions with a cold mage a big advantage, 0 cold res for all the nagas would be better imho
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

The first boss, as all of you know, is a quick strong goblin pillager with 19 movement. After his first attack however, It is really easy to ZoC him and kill him with NO losses. I thought an interesting idea would be to give it skirmisher, and possibly give the power from him x2 movement (not +2, wonder what I was thinking!) and skirmisher. It's an idea- But it's your call jb+Myth.
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
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CIB
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Post by CIB »

He isn't that easy with undead..
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