Extra drakes

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Tippsey
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Post by Tippsey »

I could easily see marksmanship coming in later Myth. As mages were trained with magic since a young age and, sergeants to lead. Elves don't get marksman till lv 2 since it took that extra time to master their skill. I can imagine for fireballs learning out to either belch huge ones or have pinpoint accuracy would be even harder.
May the drakes bloody kill you all.
Lim-Dul
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Post by Lim-Dul »

Nah - I'd leave the marksmanship trait out, but leave the damage at 11-6. The Drake would then be simply what it is meant to be - a big, mean, strong unit, but without any "finesse".

This would mean that it'd be stronger on average than e.g. a Sylph, but weaker than a properly used Sylph because of the element of randomness and low defenses.

And just like somebody said - the HPs are necessarily that high. The Drake isn't that strong in melee, has a weakness against piercing damage and the Drakes have many HPs overall - I mean - the Inferno Drake alone has more HPs than other level 4 units.

They are like Big Bertha cannons. =)
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Project StD - Save the Drakes - we want more branches! =)
Tippsey
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Post by Tippsey »

Hmm since currently it will progress as the line progress is the fire res upgrading. I mean ifwe don't upgrade it, we'll be giving the drake less then it's supposed to earn. If we do then people will complain, it's night invulnerable to fire. Although it already is that as Inferno.
May the drakes bloody kill you all.
Lim-Dul
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Post by Lim-Dul »

People probably won't caomplain cause there isn't actually another fire based faction, so the resistance to fire doesn't mean much.

Then the Armageddon Drake - especially with such high XP requirements (and they should be higher than the other level 4 units') won't ever be seen in a MP game unless one guy pwns everybody else on a 4+ player map and somehow manages to do it using Drake Burners. ;-)
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Project StD - Save the Drakes - we want more branches! =)
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Zhukov
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Post by Zhukov »

Lim-Dul wrote:...unless one guy pwns everybody else...
Unless one guy whats everyone else?
Was that a mispell? Because I just can't figure out what you meant to type. :|
Squig
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Post by Squig »

pwn: leetspeak, roughly translatable by 'totally owns'. like a lot of leetspeak, it find its origin in a typo.
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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

Zhukov wrote:
Lim-Dul wrote:...unless one guy pwns everybody else...
Unless one guy whats everyone else?
Was that a mispell? Because I just can't figure out what you meant to type. :|
To pwn someone is to utterly dominate or defeat them, usually in the context of a videogame. This definition has become so widely used you can even find it on dictionary.com-- if you click the acronym finder link (even though technically it's not an acronym).
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
Lim-Dul
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Post by Lim-Dul »

Unless one guy whats everyone else?
Sorry for using leetspeak. ;-) I thought the word was so widespread - especially on the internet - that it'd be clear to everybody. But I noticed that the Wesnoth forums seem to use their own set of acronyms and specialist expressions. ^^

Maybe I should've written "own", which is considered the weaker form of "pwning somebody", but then you probably wouldn't know that expression used in this particular context either. =)

P.S. No, I'm not a 15-year old kid with acne. In fact I'm a 22-year old student of applied linguistics. ;-)
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Project StD - Save the Drakes - we want more branches! =)
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JW
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Post by JW »

As for the Armageddon Drake taking more xp than a Great Mage, I'm not sure that's necessary, but yeah, 200 or so ought to do.
Squig wrote:pwn: leetspeak, roughly translatable by 'totally owns'. like a lot of leetspeak, it find its origin in a typo.
I like to think that I helped in the terms original creation/spreading over 5.5 years ago through the vigilant use of (and doing of it) playing of Counter-Strike. :wink:
MadMax
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Post by MadMax »

"ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM"

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Boucman
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Post by Boucman »

note, that I posted it in the dev forum because IT IS NOT AN OFFICIAL POLICY YET

just don't flood me with units just yet ;)

and we're using the armagedon drake as a test for that....

anybody interested in unit developement shoud read the coments posted by devs on the patch, it's really instructive on the kind of questions that can actually get a unit blocked from inclusion

as you'll see the "every faction should have a lvl4" argument was not accepted or even discussed. that's not a good reason
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Lim-Dul
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Post by Lim-Dul »

Yes - we all have. And the Armageddon Drake meets all the requirements. I don't know if you realise that it's a already finished unit with animations and stuff posted a while ago but simply forgotten by most people.
and we're using the armageddon drake as a test for that....
It lacks team colors so far. We'll have to wait for Neorice.
as you'll see the "every faction should have a lvl4" argument was not accepted or even discussed. that's not a good reason
I don't know if we have even mentioned this argument as a reason for the Armageddon Drake's inclusion. =) Our main points would be rather: it's finished, it has been tested even with the old stats, it fits in logically, it has a background story, it looks way too cool etc. ^^
Last edited by Lim-Dul on March 18th, 2006, 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell
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Project StD - Save the Drakes - we want more branches! =)
Boucman
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Post by Boucman »

ok, I have an OK by all involved dev, so it only needs TCing to get in
so, you all know what you have to do :twisted:
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Lim-Dul
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Post by Lim-Dul »

OK - I allowed myself to modify the original Armageddon Drake .cfg made by Neorice and include it in the zip.

It's ready for some beta-testing, although it hasn't got TColors yet (I'm too dumb to make them ;-).

New features:
  • updated WML (short -> melee; long -> ranged)
  • updated the unit description (corrected some spelling, grammar and the-like =)
  • melee damage down from 15-2 to 13-2
  • ranged damage down from 12-6 to 11-6
  • hitpoints down from 98 to 93
To Do: Team Colors (not me!) and amount of XP to advance from Inferno Drakes (should be discussed here)

Notes: I think a ranged attack of 11-6 is "weak" enough. Since both 10-6 and 9-7 attacks would result in less maximum damage than a Great Mage and it was pointed out in previous posts that the Drake's attacks lack the "magical" element which makes them in fact much less effective overall even though their max damage may indicate otherwise. Given the "realistic", if a bit optimistic, value of 60% CtH we get 39,6 damage per attack compared to the average of 44,8 (no-matter-what) of the Great Mage. Sylphs have of course a smaller damage output (an average of 35 - but magical) than the other two units but they make up for that fact with less XP needed to advance, good defensive values and overall versatility (well, just like the other Elves =).
Attachments
Armageddon Drake.zip
A modified version of the original Armageddon Drake found here:

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download.php?id=4261
(63.43 KiB) Downloaded 140 times
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell
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Project StD - Save the Drakes - we want more branches! =)
Boucman
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Post by Boucman »

hmmm


obviously you havn't understood what's going on right now...

as far as developement is concerned, all forum input is more or less frozen once the unit is posted as a patch.

so it's too late to suggest stat, only the MP dev can change them (and if you read the comments by devs on the patch, you'll see they did)

moreover, again if you read the comments you will see that this unit will be added as an "extra unit" that will NOT be available for MP games, only for campaigns (and maybe custom MP eras, I'll have to check the WML)

really, you should read both the thread in dev discussion and the comments on the patch
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