Cloud's animations

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thespaceinvader
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Cloud's animations

Post by thespaceinvader » July 31st, 2009, 4:40 pm

I've just completed the melee animation for the Dwarf Thunderer, and I'd like some volunteers to propagate this change to the Thunderguard and Dragonguard. The animation (some frames aren't cleaned in the gif) with its frames (all clean and in the zip) are attached to the post. Have fun, people =)

EDIT: Jet's doing a cleanup on these, so hold off for a day or so =)
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thunderer-blade.zip
(19.41 KiB) Downloaded 418 times
thunderer-blade.gif
thunderer-blade.gif (4.95 KiB) Viewed 6835 times
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Jetrel » August 1st, 2009, 2:33 am

Hmm, that thunderer animation needs a few additional tweaks:

I think all of the attack frames are good, now, but I think the defense part still sucks. As I'd said over IRC, I'd love it if more 'logical' defense frames, i.e. those of a unit raising their weapon to parry, worked well, but almost all the time, they don't. They almost always look like crap, because they look 'jerky" - the predominant out-then-in motion of the unit gets broken up by this sudden stutter towards the enemy at the end.

I'm not really sure what it is; maybe our animations are just too short, still. Maybe it's just a limitation of so few frames to convey it in. But in any event, what always does seem to work well, is having them lean away from the oncoming blow, like the orc grunt, or the human general, because it keeps the same motion body momentum. Maybe that's it - maybe it's just that it looks so contradictory towards the rules of momentum that makes it look bad when they 'stutter' forward to parry, because it seems like they just instantly reversed the momentum of their body to do it (when it should actually take some 500ms or so to do). A classic comparison case is the high-level Iron-mauler defense, compared with the heavy-infantry's defense animation. The HI's defense animation is so bad by comparison that I'd like to redo it. (I do think this whole thing can work when the weapon is already on the side of the the enemy, like it works on the naga, but it's incredibly hard to make look right when it's on the opposite side.)


Anyways, here's a gif - I tried hard to make a "swing the weapon in front" animation work alright, but it just doesn't - it's got the same "jerky" back and forth motion seen in TSI's version, above. I'll be making a revision very soon.
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thunderer-blade-2.gif
thunderer-blade-2.gif (5.06 KiB) Viewed 6652 times
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Jetrel » August 2nd, 2009, 2:17 pm

Right, here's a revised set of frames, which are ready to begin cloning animations from:

Here's also a .gif of what they look like, and I've committed the frames.
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thunderer-blade.zip
(15.56 KiB) Downloaded 441 times
thunderer-blade-2.gif
thunderer-blade-2.gif (5.29 KiB) Viewed 6361 times
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Girgistian » August 4th, 2009, 11:37 am

I'm not sure if you're still willing to get back to this, but it might look a bit better if his dagger turned rather toward the foe than away from it during the defence frame - it seems somewhat strange that he'd turn his wrist like that for no apparent reason. I might also have a go with it myself, unless you're satisfied with this one?
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Jetrel » August 4th, 2009, 7:18 pm

Girgistian wrote:I'm not sure if you're still willing to get back to this, but it might look a bit better if his dagger turned rather toward the foe than away from it during the defence frame - it seems somewhat strange that he'd turn his wrist like that for no apparent reason. I might also have a go with it myself, unless you're satisfied with this one?
This is the only right way to do this - if you read what I posted above, it's wrong for the blade to move towards his opponent during defense, because it changes (reverses, no less) its inertia instantaneously. I know it's unfortunate that we have to do this, but we have no choice. Kinematics trumps all. It might be feasible if we had a lot longer time for defense animations - enough for inertia to plausibly cancel out, but we don't.


So like I said, these frames are final. They are ready to be duplicated to levels 2 and 3.
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by melinath » August 4th, 2009, 8:48 pm

Girgistian wrote:... it might look a bit better if his dagger turned rather toward the foe than away from it during the defence frame - it seems somewhat strange that he'd turn his wrist like that for no apparent reason. I might also have a go with it myself, unless you're satisfied with this one?
Jetrel wrote:it's wrong for the blade to move towards his opponent during defense
Jetrel, the tip of the blade currently moves back farther than the rest of the blade and the rest of the sprite, like it's tipping away from the attacker - like the thunderguard is twisting his wrist at a very odd angle. Since Girgistian said "turned", not "moved", I believe this may be what he meant.

My apologies if I am incorrect in thinking you didn't understand his post. And my apologies also if I misunderstood his post. :wink:

In any case, it looks great, even with the tipping.

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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Jetrel » August 4th, 2009, 10:58 pm

melinath wrote:
Girgistian wrote:... it might look a bit better if his dagger turned rather toward the foe than away from it during the defence frame - it seems somewhat strange that he'd turn his wrist like that for no apparent reason. I might also have a go with it myself, unless you're satisfied with this one?
Jetrel wrote:it's wrong for the blade to move towards his opponent during defense
Jetrel, the tip of the blade currently moves back farther than the rest of the blade and the rest of the sprite, like it's tipping away from the attacker - like the thunderguard is twisting his wrist at a very odd angle.
Yes, he's tilting it forward. If you look, the hilt gets taller as it tilts towards the camera.
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by thespaceinvader » August 12th, 2009, 9:53 am

BUMP.

Anyone interested? Please...?
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Cloud » August 12th, 2009, 4:43 pm

Sorry if I misunderstand, but you just want a clone animation (same motion, different unit) right?

Assuming that's correct, I did try a first frame for the Thunderguard seems as no one was stepping up.
thunderguard-blade-1.png
thunderguard-blade-1.png (1.81 KiB) Viewed 5365 times
And feel free to be brutally honest, I've attempted sprite art before, and slightly more than frankenstiened work is about my limit at the moment, which is pretty much what this is, so if it's just bad I'll stop or if it needs work I'm willing to take a few stabs at it. (Pretty much all I've done is add the cloak in and make the clothes the right colour. The face might need a bit of work, but it's pretty tricky).
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by thespaceinvader » August 12th, 2009, 5:40 pm

Yes, that's correct. For the THunderguard, there's not a lot more that needs doing except the changes you've already made - the face remains the same. DOn't forget to switch the shoulder plates for steel, though.

You're correct, by the way, in saying that we want the motion copied over. ANimating the cloak might be a little bit of a challenge, but the rest should be no trouble. I'd do it myself, but currently I don't have time.

Nice work so far, though. Thanks very much.
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Cloud » August 12th, 2009, 7:47 pm

How right you are about the cloak -_-. Done the shoulder pads on the first frame and attempted the second, I've tweaked the cloak so many times I think I've finally come up with a workable position, that or I've gone blind looking so closely at the screen so much.
thunderguard-blade-1.png
thunderguard-blade-1.png (1.82 KiB) Viewed 5294 times
thunderguard-blade-2.png
thunderguard-blade-2.png (1.69 KiB) Viewed 5294 times
EDIT: I really can't decide if it's good or not, as soon as I convince myself its bad it starts looking good, and visa versa :annoyed:
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by thespaceinvader » August 12th, 2009, 7:54 pm

It's difficult to tell with single frames. Ideally, it would be good to see the whole animation done first. Don't worry too much about the fine detail of the shading, however, a simple block like the cloak on this would be fine: Image
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Cloud » August 16th, 2009, 12:37 pm

Blah...
Thunderguard animation blocking
Thunderguard animation blocking
thundererguard-blade-animation.gif (4.74 KiB) Viewed 5141 times
Slow Version
Slow Version
thundererguard-blade-animation-slow.gif (4.74 KiB) Viewed 5141 times

Actually I'm not to unhappy with the result, the middle two frame with the actual slash were the hardest to decide where the cape would actually be, but I may have pulled it off... or I may not have.
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by thespaceinvader » August 16th, 2009, 12:51 pm

Very close. personally, I'd say that it's worth bearing in mind that, in-game, he's going to be moving forward quite a lot during those two frames, and really have the cape blow out behind him, almost horizontally.

Thanks for doing this. If you're quick, we should be able to get this into the 1.7.3 release this afternoon.
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Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Cloud » August 16th, 2009, 3:01 pm

:hmm: I did think about having the cape almost horizontal, but with the movement he's taking his body covers up pretty much the whole cape then. I'll try a fix and shade it.
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