Cloud's animations

Contribute art for mainline Wesnoth.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
Post Reply
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Cloud's animations

Post by thespaceinvader »

I've just completed the melee animation for the Dwarf Thunderer, and I'd like some volunteers to propagate this change to the Thunderguard and Dragonguard. The animation (some frames aren't cleaned in the gif) with its frames (all clean and in the zip) are attached to the post. Have fun, people =)

EDIT: Jet's doing a cleanup on these, so hold off for a day or so =)
Attachments
thunderer-blade.zip
(19.41 KiB) Downloaded 624 times
thunderer-blade.gif
thunderer-blade.gif (4.95 KiB) Viewed 9368 times
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
Jetrel
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Jetrel »

Hmm, that thunderer animation needs a few additional tweaks:

I think all of the attack frames are good, now, but I think the defense part still sucks. As I'd said over IRC, I'd love it if more 'logical' defense frames, i.e. those of a unit raising their weapon to parry, worked well, but almost all the time, they don't. They almost always look like crap, because they look 'jerky" - the predominant out-then-in motion of the unit gets broken up by this sudden stutter towards the enemy at the end.

I'm not really sure what it is; maybe our animations are just too short, still. Maybe it's just a limitation of so few frames to convey it in. But in any event, what always does seem to work well, is having them lean away from the oncoming blow, like the orc grunt, or the human general, because it keeps the same motion body momentum. Maybe that's it - maybe it's just that it looks so contradictory towards the rules of momentum that makes it look bad when they 'stutter' forward to parry, because it seems like they just instantly reversed the momentum of their body to do it (when it should actually take some 500ms or so to do). A classic comparison case is the high-level Iron-mauler defense, compared with the heavy-infantry's defense animation. The HI's defense animation is so bad by comparison that I'd like to redo it. (I do think this whole thing can work when the weapon is already on the side of the the enemy, like it works on the naga, but it's incredibly hard to make look right when it's on the opposite side.)


Anyways, here's a gif - I tried hard to make a "swing the weapon in front" animation work alright, but it just doesn't - it's got the same "jerky" back and forth motion seen in TSI's version, above. I'll be making a revision very soon.
Attachments
thunderer-blade-2.gif
thunderer-blade-2.gif (5.06 KiB) Viewed 9185 times
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
User avatar
Jetrel
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Jetrel »

Right, here's a revised set of frames, which are ready to begin cloning animations from:

Here's also a .gif of what they look like, and I've committed the frames.
Attachments
thunderer-blade.zip
(15.56 KiB) Downloaded 672 times
thunderer-blade-2.gif
thunderer-blade-2.gif (5.29 KiB) Viewed 8894 times
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
User avatar
Girgistian
Art Contributor
Posts: 668
Joined: April 5th, 2008, 8:23 pm
Location: The lands of perkele

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Girgistian »

I'm not sure if you're still willing to get back to this, but it might look a bit better if his dagger turned rather toward the foe than away from it during the defence frame - it seems somewhat strange that he'd turn his wrist like that for no apparent reason. I might also have a go with it myself, unless you're satisfied with this one?
For the dark gods!
User avatar
Jetrel
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Jetrel »

Girgistian wrote:I'm not sure if you're still willing to get back to this, but it might look a bit better if his dagger turned rather toward the foe than away from it during the defence frame - it seems somewhat strange that he'd turn his wrist like that for no apparent reason. I might also have a go with it myself, unless you're satisfied with this one?
This is the only right way to do this - if you read what I posted above, it's wrong for the blade to move towards his opponent during defense, because it changes (reverses, no less) its inertia instantaneously. I know it's unfortunate that we have to do this, but we have no choice. Kinematics trumps all. It might be feasible if we had a lot longer time for defense animations - enough for inertia to plausibly cancel out, but we don't.


So like I said, these frames are final. They are ready to be duplicated to levels 2 and 3.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by melinath »

Girgistian wrote:... it might look a bit better if his dagger turned rather toward the foe than away from it during the defence frame - it seems somewhat strange that he'd turn his wrist like that for no apparent reason. I might also have a go with it myself, unless you're satisfied with this one?
Jetrel wrote:it's wrong for the blade to move towards his opponent during defense
Jetrel, the tip of the blade currently moves back farther than the rest of the blade and the rest of the sprite, like it's tipping away from the attacker - like the thunderguard is twisting his wrist at a very odd angle. Since Girgistian said "turned", not "moved", I believe this may be what he meant.

My apologies if I am incorrect in thinking you didn't understand his post. And my apologies also if I misunderstood his post. :wink:

In any case, it looks great, even with the tipping.
User avatar
Jetrel
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Jetrel »

melinath wrote:
Girgistian wrote:... it might look a bit better if his dagger turned rather toward the foe than away from it during the defence frame - it seems somewhat strange that he'd turn his wrist like that for no apparent reason. I might also have a go with it myself, unless you're satisfied with this one?
Jetrel wrote:it's wrong for the blade to move towards his opponent during defense
Jetrel, the tip of the blade currently moves back farther than the rest of the blade and the rest of the sprite, like it's tipping away from the attacker - like the thunderguard is twisting his wrist at a very odd angle.
Yes, he's tilting it forward. If you look, the hilt gets taller as it tilts towards the camera.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by thespaceinvader »

BUMP.

Anyone interested? Please...?
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
Cloud
Art Contributor
Posts: 502
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 7:43 pm
Location: The land of pixels
Contact:

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Cloud »

Sorry if I misunderstand, but you just want a clone animation (same motion, different unit) right?

Assuming that's correct, I did try a first frame for the Thunderguard seems as no one was stepping up.
thunderguard-blade-1.png
thunderguard-blade-1.png (1.81 KiB) Viewed 7898 times
And feel free to be brutally honest, I've attempted sprite art before, and slightly more than frankenstiened work is about my limit at the moment, which is pretty much what this is, so if it's just bad I'll stop or if it needs work I'm willing to take a few stabs at it. (Pretty much all I've done is add the cloak in and make the clothes the right colour. The face might need a bit of work, but it's pretty tricky).
Softly/SoftlySplinter on IRC. Will be lurking around more these days
Mainline Animations|The Væringjar
Art for these mead-sodden, bearded mushroom-junkies by Girgistian!
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by thespaceinvader »

Yes, that's correct. For the THunderguard, there's not a lot more that needs doing except the changes you've already made - the face remains the same. DOn't forget to switch the shoulder plates for steel, though.

You're correct, by the way, in saying that we want the motion copied over. ANimating the cloak might be a little bit of a challenge, but the rest should be no trouble. I'd do it myself, but currently I don't have time.

Nice work so far, though. Thanks very much.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
Cloud
Art Contributor
Posts: 502
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 7:43 pm
Location: The land of pixels
Contact:

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Cloud »

How right you are about the cloak -_-. Done the shoulder pads on the first frame and attempted the second, I've tweaked the cloak so many times I think I've finally come up with a workable position, that or I've gone blind looking so closely at the screen so much.
thunderguard-blade-1.png
thunderguard-blade-1.png (1.82 KiB) Viewed 7827 times
thunderguard-blade-2.png
thunderguard-blade-2.png (1.69 KiB) Viewed 7827 times
EDIT: I really can't decide if it's good or not, as soon as I convince myself its bad it starts looking good, and visa versa :annoyed:
Softly/SoftlySplinter on IRC. Will be lurking around more these days
Mainline Animations|The Væringjar
Art for these mead-sodden, bearded mushroom-junkies by Girgistian!
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by thespaceinvader »

It's difficult to tell with single frames. Ideally, it would be good to see the whole animation done first. Don't worry too much about the fine detail of the shading, however, a simple block like the cloak on this would be fine: Image
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
Cloud
Art Contributor
Posts: 502
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 7:43 pm
Location: The land of pixels
Contact:

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Cloud »

Blah...
Thunderguard animation blocking
Thunderguard animation blocking
thundererguard-blade-animation.gif (4.74 KiB) Viewed 7674 times
Slow Version
Slow Version
thundererguard-blade-animation-slow.gif (4.74 KiB) Viewed 7674 times

Actually I'm not to unhappy with the result, the middle two frame with the actual slash were the hardest to decide where the cape would actually be, but I may have pulled it off... or I may not have.
Softly/SoftlySplinter on IRC. Will be lurking around more these days
Mainline Animations|The Væringjar
Art for these mead-sodden, bearded mushroom-junkies by Girgistian!
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by thespaceinvader »

Very close. personally, I'd say that it's worth bearing in mind that, in-game, he's going to be moving forward quite a lot during those two frames, and really have the cape blow out behind him, almost horizontally.

Thanks for doing this. If you're quick, we should be able to get this into the 1.7.3 release this afternoon.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
Cloud
Art Contributor
Posts: 502
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 7:43 pm
Location: The land of pixels
Contact:

Re: REQUEST: Thunderguard and Dragonguard melee animations

Post by Cloud »

:hmm: I did think about having the cape almost horizontal, but with the movement he's taking his body covers up pretty much the whole cape then. I'll try a fix and shade it.
Softly/SoftlySplinter on IRC. Will be lurking around more these days
Mainline Animations|The Væringjar
Art for these mead-sodden, bearded mushroom-junkies by Girgistian!
Post Reply