The Beautiful Child

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by Dugi »

mattsc wrote:
September 8th, 2018, 3:05 pm
Alternatively, Dugi could work around this bug by removing the leader_shares_keep candidate action from sides that have more than one leader. Either way, we'll have this fixed for 1.14.5.
The problem is that leader_shares_keep is a part of the passive_leader_shares_keep property and that one is the only comfortable way to make a leader defend himself if attacked (instead of just retaliating) but also keeps him from rushing into battle and getting himself killed easily.

I think I will add a version check that checks if the version is 1.14.5 or higher and uses that option only then.

Btw, I did report the problem with AI crashing with two leaders (but I did no pin it to the keep sharing candidate action) a few years ago somewhere (I can't recall where) and assumed it was fixed because I could not replicate it in this scenario. Then, something else made the right circumstances possible.

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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by mattsc »

Dugi wrote:
September 10th, 2018, 6:38 am
The problem is that leader_shares_keep is a part of the passive_leader_shares_keep property and that one is the only comfortable way to make a leader defend himself if attacked (instead of just retaliating) but also keeps him from rushing into battle and getting himself killed easily.
Unless I misunderstand you, I don't think that's the case. There are three different parts to this:
  1. passive_leader is an AI aspect that disables all leader actions other than attacking adjacent enemies (well, and leader_goals, but that is irrelevant here).
  2. passive_leader_shares_keep is another aspect that enables the leader_shares_keep candidate action, so that the leader will make room for an allied close-by leader at the end of the AI turn (and move back to the keep at the beginning of the next turn), even if passive_leader=yes is set.
  3. Finally, there is the leader_shares_keep candidate action that performs the moving off the keep action.
Removing the CA only means that the leader never moves off the keep, independent of what either of those two aspects is set to, but it does not affect whether adjacent enemies are attacked. So, unless you specifically want this move off the keep behavior, it should be save to remove the candidate action.

EDIT: struck out part above that was wrong, due to me mis-reading the wiki

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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by Dugi »

mattsc wrote:
September 10th, 2018, 1:36 pm
Unless I misunderstand you, I don't think that's the case. There are three different parts to this: [...]
Maybe it changed, but in the past, it used to be that passive_leader does not even attack adjacent enemies.

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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by mattsc »

Dugi wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 9:06 am
mattsc wrote:
September 10th, 2018, 1:36 pm
Unless I misunderstand you, I don't think that's the case. There are three different parts to this: [...]
Maybe it changed, but in the past, it used to be that passive_leader does not even attack adjacent enemies.
Hmm, yes, apparently the wiki is wrong about that. I just tested it and that is still the case — which is strange, I thought I'd cleaned up everything on that page (but at least it is consistent with my recollection then, I remembered it as you do).

However, the other parts of what I said are still true, the passive_leader_shares_keep aspect does not change that (and I tested that too now).

EDIT: Blargh, I'm an idiot. I completely mis-read the wiki. It clearly states that adjacent enemies are not attacked. Not sure what I was reading... Well, at least I feel better about not having made such a blatant mistake when I cleaned up that page.

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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Got an on screen error message, I'm not sure if it was AI turn 10 or beginning of turn 11 (it happens before the elf AMLA menu comes up resulting from being attacked, if that helps). It's in the log at 18:48:52.

Latest stable versions on 1.14.5

EDIT: Saw this again, same circumstances (same character AMAL after a defensive victory). Preceding turn attached.
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Last edited by white_haired_uncle on March 7th, 2019, 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by white_haired_uncle »

In hindsight, this might not have been a very wise purchase, but the guy standing next to the weapons shop has a sword which doesn't seem to do anything except increase blade penetration. No extra hits, damage, or chaotic (ahem) attribute..

EDIT: Seems to be particular to that unit. I've tried a different sword with him (same problem), and that sword with another unit (works).
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Move to the waypoint and go to Thunderhold. The objective and one of the defeat conditions are not possible, since that unit doesn't come along.

While in Thunderhold, Luke showed up and there was a discussion. Someone says "you resurrected your body", which I believe should be "her body".
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Move a unit to 27.17 and view the resulting dialog. Unless I missed something and the kid got captured again this seems out of place (I've already returned him).
Spoiler:
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by white_haired_uncle »

I found the hidden valley and took care of business. There was a message about "None of us has problems with mountains", even though I had a Prophet and an Iron Mauler.

Spoiler:
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white_haired_uncle
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Probably my favorite of the LOTI campaigns. One thing I liked was the gem merchant, as I like a more deterministic approach to items. But, I think it's too lenient. For example, I like every unit to have at least one Mastadon item, but I'm always limited by pearls. Being able to buy as many pearls as I want removes any challenge to acquiring what I want, it becomes more of an exercise in exploring the items menu. I think gems should go up in price each time you buy one (by type), and/or (probably and) each merchant should have a limited supply of each type.

I played on easy, and I found the difficulty to be very inconsistent. For example, the elf chick at the beginning. I couldn't find a way to keep her alive more than a couple turns that didn't involve sacrificing the rest of my units. After cheating my way through the first scenario, she eventually turns into a killing machine. I can put her in front of a +16 healer and just let the AI through units at her, with her killing 7 or 8 per turn in defense.

In general, the free form levels were trivial, while the classic turn limited hack your way through a bunch of enemies to reach the goal were very hard, probably because the AI was recruiting just a little faster than I could kill/advance. [Disclaimer: I'm starting to think I suck at the 'hack your way through an endless wall of enemies' scenarios, as I have trouble with them in most campaigns. BTW, I absolutely love the penetrates ability, as often my problem is once I finally make an opening none of my units has MP left to advance enough to take position.]

Specifically, Punishers and To Tame a Land I would have gotten through, but the turn limit was too tight, while Burke's Retribution(?) kicked my back side royally.

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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by Dugi »

white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 12:01 am
Got an on screen error message, I'm not sure if it was AI turn 10 or beginning of turn 11 (it happens before the elf AMLA menu comes up resulting from being attacked, if that helps). It's in the log at 18:48:52.

Latest stable versions on 1.14.5

EDIT: Saw this again, same circumstances (same character AMAL after a defensive victory). Preceding turn attached.
This is a known bug. I the rewrite of LotI should deal with it soon. I was not able to replicate this case, though.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 1:38 am
In hindsight, this might not have been a very wise purchase, but the guy standing next to the weapons shop has a sword which doesn't seem to do anything except increase blade penetration. No extra hits, damage, or chaotic (ahem) attribute..
It seems all right to me when I open it. But the problem is that the save file does not snapshot some of the more recent code used in LotI, so there can be some bug that was fixed after releasing the latest LotI.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 9:28 pm
Move to the waypoint and go to Thunderhold. The objective and one of the defeat conditions are not possible, since that unit doesn't come along.
He just has to be recalled. I have fixed that bug that prevented him from being automatically recalled.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 9:28 pm
While in Thunderhold, Luke showed up and there was a discussion. Someone says "you resurrected your body", which I believe should be "her body".
Fixed.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 10:54 pm
Move a unit to 27.17 and view the resulting dialog. Unless I missed something and the kid got captured again this seems out of place (I've already returned him).
Added an alternate dialog for the case of them having found you too late.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 10:54 pm
Spoiler:
Fixed. Now, if you get too close to the bottom, the spawning stops.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 9th, 2019, 1:06 am
I found the hidden valley and took care of business. There was a message about "None of us has problems with mountains", even though I had a Prophet and an Iron Mauler.
They all got an ability to get through mountains with a movement cost of 3.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 9th, 2019, 1:06 am
Spoiler:
Do you happen to also have a save file where the Thunderhold scenario is broken?
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:28 pm
Probably my favorite of the LOTI campaigns. One thing I liked was the gem merchant, as I like a more deterministic approach to items. But, I think it's too lenient. For example, I like every unit to have at least one Mastadon item, but I'm always limited by pearls. Being able to buy as many pearls as I want removes any challenge to acquiring what I want, it becomes more of an exercise in exploring the items menu. I think gems should go up in price each time you buy one (by type), and/or (probably and) each merchant should have a limited supply of each type.

[...]
I also think the limited supply or ever increasing price could fix the problem with buying gems.

When I was playtesting it, I had no problems with that. Do you know that you can recruit in these time-limited scenarios?

Thanks for the other feedback.

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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Dugi wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 10:03 pm
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 9th, 2019, 1:06 am
Spoiler:
Do you happen to also have a save file where the Thunderhold scenario is broken?
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 9:28 pm
Probably my favorite of the LOTI campaigns. One thing I liked was the gem merchant, as I like a more deterministic approach to items. But, I think it's too lenient. For example, I like every unit to have at least one Mastadon item, but I'm always limited by pearls. Being able to buy as many pearls as I want removes any challenge to acquiring what I want, it becomes more of an exercise in exploring the items menu. I think gems should go up in price each time you buy one (by type), and/or (probably and) each merchant should have a limited supply of each type.

[...]
I also think the limited supply or ever increasing price could fix the problem with buying gems.

When I was playtesting it, I had no problems with that. Do you know that you can recruit in these time-limited scenarios?

Thanks for the other feedback.
I don't have any other saves.
Spoiler:
I did recruit in the time-limited scenarios, though IIRC I didn't have a lot of gold. You are probably so much better than I am at this game that it's hard to see the things that are difficult for people like me. Hopefully feedback from others will determine if it's inconsistent or just an area I suck at.

saxo
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by saxo »

Hello Dugi,
I encounter a bug in the campaign. After killing Luke, I teleport my team in Goonville .
Coming back to Valley Passage, Konrad II never react to the presence of the team.

So they are lost in the world of The Beautiful shield wandering without issue....

S.

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Dugi
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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by Dugi »

white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 10:44 pm
Spoiler:
That explains it. The possibility to talk to Konrad II is enabled only if you enter the scenario before defeating the blood rain boss. It becomes unwinnable if entered later. The fix I have written will be a part of the next update.
white_haired_uncle wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 10:44 pm
I did recruit in the time-limited scenarios, though IIRC I didn't have a lot of gold. You are probably so much better than I am at this game that it's hard to see the things that are difficult for people like me. Hopefully feedback from others will determine if it's inconsistent or just an area I suck at.
Other people were actually reporting that it was too easy, so I am inclined to believe you on this.
saxo wrote:
April 26th, 2019, 5:21 am
I encounter a bug in the campaign. After killing Luke, I teleport my team in Goonville .
I have fixed this and will include it in the next update.

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Re: The Beautiful Child

Post by Spirit_of_Currents »

1. I wanted to play the entire campaign with few units only. I didn't recruit at all, and always had from two to five units. That's why I used debug mode to make my heroes more powerful. Unfortunately it was slow to get items. Could you add a cheat option to get random items? Or maybe even more cheat options?

2. I really liked the dialogue.

3. I suggest some new weapon specials: toxic 2, toxic 4, toxic 8 etc. Toxic does damage like poison but is only cured when the unit is at full HP. If a unit is hit with different strengths of toxic, the strongest one stays.

If it wasn't clear, my suggestions apply to Affably Evil and LotI as well.
There are very much electrical currents in my brain.

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