Trolls! (4 scenarios done)

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Jequ
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Trolls! (4 scenarios done)

Post by Jequ »

I am attempting to create a new campaign called Trolls!. The name isn't very innovative but hopefully the campaign itself will. The campaign tells a story of a group of trolls living in a deep cave who have been attacked by dwarves. Dwarves want to mine gold and other valuable minerals.

I am planning to make at least 10 scenarios.

I have released a very early version for the first map and it is available on 1.4.x add-on server.

I will add more information to this first post as the project goes on :)
Last edited by Jequ on January 3rd, 2009, 6:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Guidrion
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Re: Trolls! (1 scenario done but unpolished)

Post by Guidrion »

That's a nice project. :D

I just hope those troll won't be just beast seeking for death and blood.
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Jequ
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Re: Trolls! (1 scenario done but unpolished)

Post by Jequ »

Guidrion wrote:That's a nice project. :D

I just hope those troll won't be just beast seeking for death and blood.
Not really... they are actually very peace-loving but peace is not what they get.

I have released version 0.02 and saves of that version should work... you will get an error about map but that is feature at this moment :) I am still working on the second map. Map file is mostly done and cfg file has side definitions and other basic stuff.

CHANGELOG: 0.0.2

-added 3 more units: level 1 Rocklobber and level 1 Troll Shaman and level 2 Troll Shaman (from EE)
-Added CHANGELOG.txt to the scenario folder

Scenario 1:

-Time of day is now underground instead of default schedule.
-Eag is now Whelp Shaman and 2 villages are Rockthrowers instead of Troll Whelps.
-One of Ug's trolls is now Rockthrower
-Ug has now 3 mercenaries: Orcish Assassin, Orcish Archer and Poacher.
-Player loses when Ug dies.
-Enemy has now 60, 85 of 120 gold depending on the difficulty instead of 60, 60 and 80 gold
-One of the Dwarvish Fighter guard is now Steelclad on hard difficulty.
-The Dwarvish Miner, in the victory event, now arrives to the dwarf castle instead of troll village.
-Moved the Tentacles nearer to the bridge.

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Akkarin345
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Re: Trolls! (1 scenario done but unpolished)

Post by Akkarin345 »

I have played the campaign today ...

Scenario 1

- I really like the new trolls, it is nice to see a change and a few fresh units. However the shaman and rocklobber could do with slightly different descriptions IMO.
- A bit confused where the orcish archer, assasin and poacher have come from ...
( i have just worked out they are mercanries, maybe a little dialogue to show this?
- The second tentacle i only fought because i baited it out for the Xp, maybe another tile closer?


Overall a very good scenario

Scenario 2 - Map not found, but eagily looking foward to it! :D

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Orcish Shyde
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Re: Trolls! (1 scenario done but unpolished)

Post by Orcish Shyde »

I recall it being argued, and argued well, that Troll Shamans could level from normal Troll Whelps because their magic is meant to be instinctive; however I disagree, if it was that instinctive you'd have normal trolls chucking fireballs.

The concept's good. The story is promising - it's been done before, but everything has, and this one's not been done in detail. I'd (eventually) make the following changes though:

- Remove the Whelp Rockthrower; I can believe Eag The Wise breathing fireballs as his magic attack, but a whelp is meant to need all four limbs just to move and stand, so how is a non-magical whelp throwing things? (That, and the rockthrowers weren't very useful x3)
- Give Eag The Wise a ranged attack sprite, say, of him breathing fireballs (since he's yet to grow big enough to Hadoken at level 1)
- Add a level 3 option for the Shaman, even if it uses the same sprites, because I think all campaign protagonists should have the opportunity to reach level 3.
- Add dialogue about the mercenaries.

Also, I think there's a "hero=yes" option you can add to Ug The Strong, to give him one of those silver crowns and thus mark him as mission-critical. I say "I think" 'cause I've yet to use it.
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Jequ
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Re: Trolls! (1 scenario done but unpolished)

Post by Jequ »

Akkarin345 wrote:- I really like the new trolls, it is nice to see a change and a few fresh units. However the shaman and rocklobber could do with slightly different descriptions IMO.
I will do that at some point but currently I focus on making more scenarios :)
- A bit confused where the orcish archer, assasin and poacher have come from ...
( i have just worked out they are mercanries, maybe a little dialogue to show this?
Added some dialog. Thanks for the tip.
- The second tentacle i only fought because i baited it out for the Xp, maybe another tile closer?
I moved it closer and tested it. My allies killed the tentacle with ease but well... it is exp for you :p
Overall a very good scenario
Glad to hear :)
Scenario 2 - Map not found, but eagily looking foward to it! :D
No need to wait any more because...

0.0.3 CHANGELOG

First version of second scenario

Scenario 1:

-Ug's villages will now transfer to player 1 when Ug's units change side.
-Objectives now tell that death of Ug means losing game.
-Moved the other Tentacle closer to the bridge.
-Some more dialog which tells that Orcs and Poacher are mercenaries

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Jequ
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Re: Trolls! (1 scenario done but unpolished)

Post by Jequ »

Orcish Shyde wrote:- Remove the Whelp Rockthrower; I can believe Eag The Wise breathing fireballs as his magic attack, but a whelp is meant to need all four limbs just to move and stand, so how is a non-magical whelp throwing things? (That, and the rockthrowers weren't very useful x3)
Hmm... Whelp can throw things if it stands on three limbs. And yes... I think I should remove them from the recruit list of the scenario 2 because Whelp Shamans are also good rangers (and they have magical). But I keep them in the first scenario... you don't need to give them any exp or recall them later, do you?
Orcish Shyde wrote:- Give Eag The Wise a ranged attack sprite, say, of him breathing fireballs (since he's yet to grow big enough to Hadoken at level 1)
- Add a level 3 option for the Shaman, even if it uses the same sprites, because I think all campaign protagonists should have the opportunity to reach level 3.
I have thought about doing these and I will add them to 0.0.4 because I also add one scenario more where Eag can get more exp and possibly reach level 3.
Orcish Shyde wrote:- Add dialogue about the mercenaries.
Done.
Orcish Shyde wrote:Also, I think there's a "hero=yes" option you can add to Ug The Strong, to give him one of those silver crowns and thus mark him as mission-critical. I say "I think" 'cause I've yet to use it.
I found a {IS_HERO} macro. :) I will use it in 0.0.4. Thanks for the suggestion.

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Turuk
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Re: Trolls! (2 scenarios done)

Post by Turuk »

Just so you know, in the main.cfg, you have the id as Dead Water.
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Jequ
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Re: Trolls! (2 scenarios done)

Post by Jequ »

Turuk wrote:Just so you know, in the main.cfg, you have the id as Dead Water.
That's what you get when you copy-paste stuff to make creation easier :?
Released 0.0.4 version to fix this very very embarrassing bug... :oops:

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Akkarin345
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Re: Trolls! (2 scenarios done)

Post by Akkarin345 »

Scenario 1

- Something has changed, the units which are allied to begin with go for the tenticles and the dwarves. They didn't do this last time, i am playing hard this time and meduim before though ...
- Good addition of the already controlled villages

Scenario 2

The party travels further to the cave seeing no dwarves. Finally they hear the sound of dwarvish hammers.

I think this would be clearer:

The party traveled into the cave and found no dwarves. However finally they hear the sound of dwarvish hammers ...


- Maybe a different team for the bats?
- Maybe for the poachers as well, unless they have been recuited by the dwarves, if they have maybe a bit of dialogue for this?
- Are the dwarves ment to be in the same group as the outlaws? If the poachers and footpads were on a mercanary team ....
- Maybe not the poison naga by the dwarf leader, i posioned him straight away ...
- Not sure why there is no turn limit, if you would like a guide, i completed the hard in 20 turns.
- There are a few units with 0 MP permantly, i assume these guard the way out? ( i killed the leader )

To the raised issue of a lv 3 shaman, i am not sure about this as many other leader don't go to lv 3 and i personally think keeping the leader at lv 2 and giving him extra AMLA abilities like extra fireballs , stronger fireballs, quicker, leadership options etc.

Although there are a lot of points above i really enjoyed this scenario as well

This looks like it will be a very good campaign to me :D

EDIT: I don't think i mentioned i did this on hard and the first scenario was harder than meduim but still do able i think it fits the description of challenging.

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Orcish Shyde
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Re: Trolls! (2 scenarios done)

Post by Orcish Shyde »

Akkarin345 wrote:To the raised issue of a lv 3 shaman, i am not sure about this as many other leader don't go to lv 3 and i personally think keeping the leader at lv 2 and giving him extra AMLA abilities like extra fireballs , stronger fireballs, quicker, leadership options etc.
Not a single one that I know of. The only ones I've seen that even have the potential to not go eventually to level 3 are Tallin of Northern Rebirth (if you make him a Javelineer before Malifor is defeated, which is a pretty stupid thing to do) and Galas of Invasion from the Unknown (if you make him an Elvish Protector, which again I'd say is a pretty stupid thing to do). No, Kaleh does not count - in fact IIRC, when I played, by the end of the campaign he was a level 3 unit. Either way I can't make head nor tail of Kaleh's code at a glance, unlike with most custom units, which speaks volumes for how complicated it is to get a unit to work like he does and do it well.

This isn't to say custom AMLAs are all bad. I'd give L3 Eag an AMLA that gives him {LEADERSHIP_LEVEL_3} (or Leadership Level 5 if you really want!) and maybe another that adds an arcane attack to his main Hadoken (perhaps with quickly-recoloured fireballs, or fireballs recoloured by the game itself if you prefer delving for code to making your campaign that bit larger. Yes, it can be done; it's the WML behind the {MAGENTA_IS_THE_TEAM_COLOR} macro.)
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Akkarin345
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Re: Trolls! (2 scenarios done)

Post by Akkarin345 »

Does he really need a lv 3 though?
To your point in IftU i made my Galas Lv2 :annoyed: I found it was the best way to go. I think you are overpowering a lv 3 with AMLA's extra options, he isn't a troll god after all. You then have the problem with a lv 3 is that you can't make the other shamans that powerful or you would have the player getting loads of them. Also some people would like to see a L3 Rock troll as well i am sure if the shaman gets one ...

Why does he need a lv 3 though? He already has a good magical ranged attack, regeneration and decent health. AMLA's could give leadership etc without needing the lv 3 advancment.

Back to the campaign at the moment, Ag Ag i think he is called the troll has a dialogue when he dies, maybe give him the loyal trait?

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Jequ
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Re: Trolls! (2 scenarios done)

Post by Jequ »

Akkarin345 wrote:Back to the campaign at the moment, Ag Ag i think he is called the troll has a dialogue when he dies, maybe give him the loyal trait?
Yes, I think I should make him loyal. I also had an idea to make him permanent troll whelp which never learns to walk on two limbs for some reason. Maybe he could level with custom AMLAs (more damage, resists and hp) What do you think about this?
- Maybe a different team for the bats?
I'll do this. They aren't dwarves friends after all.
- Not sure why there is no turn limit, if you would like a guide, i completed the hard in 20 turns.
Hmm... I will put a turn limit soon. 25 turns is probably good if you don't think that you won on turn 20 because of extreme skills or/and luck.
To the raised issue of a lv 3 shaman, i am not sure about this as many other leader don't go to lv 3 and i personally think keeping the leader at lv 2 and giving him extra AMLA abilities like extra fireballs , stronger fireballs, quicker, leadership options etc.

I was thinking about making 2 level 3 options: one with leadership and +4hp heal and other with super fireballs.
Are the dwarves ment to be in the same group as the outlaws? If the poachers and footpads were on a mercanary team
Yes. (I don't know what you think about my answer :? )
The party traveled into the cave and found no dwarves. However finally they hear the sound of dwarvish hammers ...
That sounds much better. I really need some help with the dialogs and such :(

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Orcish Shyde
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Re: Trolls! (2 scenarios done)

Post by Orcish Shyde »

Why does he need a level 3? Because he's your leader. Why is it worth considering making him even stronger than that? Because he's your LEADER.
The reason Rocklobbers can be L2 without me whining is that they're a branch. You at least get the choice to go for a level 3 unit instead.
By your logic, Konrad would stop levelling up at level 2, because he doesn't "really need" a level 3 custom unit for any reason other than HE IS YOUR LEADER! If your leader isn't among your best troops in terms of support powers and/or sheer asskicking, it gives you too much encouragement to play defensively and wimpily, like I did the first time I played The South Guard.
In fact, by your logic there'd be no such thing as Troll Warriors - the standard troll already has regeneration and a powerful melee attack.

The idea of a branch at level 3 for your leader is good IMHO. Less work than custom AMLAs, while still letting the player decide his play style and HAVE A LEVEL 3 LEADER.

Now, on to Ag Ag... The only thing that makes me hesitate to say "Give him a level 2 anyway" is that there's no sprite for a large, hulking troll who's still crawling. Maybe he's simply too clumsy to walk - my first thought at "troll who never can walk" was "troll too bloody massive and strong for his legs to support him".
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Akkarin345
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Re: Trolls! (2 scenarios done)

Post by Akkarin345 »

Btw just because every campaign usually has a LV 3 leader it doesn't mean we can't change that in some. It does mean a whole new unit has to be made and balanced etc.

Anyway no i am not extremly skilled, luck was ok, if you want me to post my replay then i can so you can look how it works when play testing?

Only walk on two limbs, you don't need a reason really, you can maybe use him later in the camapaign, if you keep him alive, to unlock something or become strong etc. Sort of a creature created with a hidden gift but is also crippled? Just an idea.

Maybe some dialogue from the dwarf to the poachers saying, now trap the nagas between your two forces or something like that ?

If you want me to run over the dialogues for you i can and try to make similar improvments.

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