The Heist campaign

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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multilis
Posts: 69
Joined: November 27th, 2006, 12:36 am

The Heist campaign

Post by multilis »

Wesnoth v 1.3.3, Heist v 1.1.1

Some unique stuff including winning a board game, and units being turned into bats, and a puzzle. Some parts take multiple attempts as you have to figure out how to win, what is happenning.

You get a bird in the end who can turn units to stone, which is suprisingly powerful, as you can build a fortification of stoned units to block the enemies advance (except through squeeze points where you outnumber him 2 or 3 to 1). The battle as a result didn't seem to fit the storyline, my wizard was winning but agreed to give up his precious for unneeded "reinforcements".

The men usually lawful and their wives chaotic, except in end where female peasants are the lawful side... but none of the female peasants can advance, they don't even gain health points from experiance. (While the male peasants do advance). IMO that at least should be fixed, female peasants should gain something from experiance, perhaps unusual like become mage.

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DDR
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Cool Stuff.

Post by DDR »

This campaign is quite interesting - it deviates greatly from the standard format, and is... innovative. It also demonstrates incredible technical skill.

I think that, although it is well-coded, it lacks somewhat in the story. I found some switches in plot hard to handle, and some rather obtuse areas of the plot. The unit's names tend to have serial numbers in them. In summary, I believe that the story is rough, but that it will be doable to fix it.

I would recommend that you download it, as it is truly a showcase of what Wesnoth can achieve. It is like UtBS, in that the game play is not what you find every day.

:shock: Wow.

Rhuvaen
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Re: Cool Stuff.

Post by Rhuvaen »

DDR wrote:This campaign is quite interesting - it deviates greatly from the standard format, and is... innovative.
Very much so... I'm quite surprised at the praise this gets, though. I never made if past a few turns in the second scenario (the first non-story scenario!). I find it too luck-based to defend a foolish king against charging knights, with only four outlaws - none of which you can afford to lose. Tried a couple of times, couldn't find a "strategy" there, gave up (and I'm not a person to give up easily and not an inexperienced player, either).

Or am I missing out on a python AI for King Gerald (or is it Theomund?) who behaves more intelligently (because I've got python support disabled)?

genosuke
Posts: 57
Joined: June 23rd, 2005, 7:02 pm

Re: The Heist campaign

Post by genosuke »

multilis wrote: my wizard was winning but agreed to give up his precious for unneeded "reinforcements".
I always assumed the battle scenario was too difficult (I havent played through it in a while). Obviously I was wrong since you're outnumbering the enemy 3 to 1. I'll try to make it more challenging.

From the wizard's perspective, however, reinforcements are needed. By the time the orcs arrive, there should be around 60 enemies on the map (let me know if there are fewer).

You're right about his precious, though. He wouldn't give it up so easily. I'll change the dialogue to reflect this.
multilis wrote: The men usually lawful and their wives chaotic, except in end where female peasants are the lawful side... but none of the female peasants can advance, they don't even gain health points from experiance. (While the male peasants do advance). IMO that at least should be fixed, female peasants should gain something from experiance, perhaps unusual like become mage.
I'll change them so they gain a few hitpoints.
DDR wrote: I think that, although it is well-coded, it lacks somewhat in the story. I found some switches in plot hard to handle, and some rather obtuse areas of the plot.
Yeah, I guess the story isn't very coherent...
DDR wrote: The unit's names tend to have serial numbers in them.
That's because I left the unit descriptions blank. It'll be fixed in the next version.
Rhuvaen wrote: Very much so... I'm quite surprised at the praise this gets, though. I never made if past a few turns in the second scenario (the first non-story scenario!). I find it too luck-based to defend a foolish king against charging knights, with only four outlaws - none of which you can afford to lose. Tried a couple of times, couldn't find a "strategy" there, gave up (and I'm not a person to give up easily and not an inexperienced player, either).

Or am I missing out on a python AI for King Gerald (or is it Theomund?) who behaves more intelligently (because I've got python support disabled)?
On easy, you only need one kill. Just use Gerald's men as shields and attack the wounded enemies. To make it easier, I could swap the AI sides. That way, after your turn, Gerald's units can kill enemies near your units (or at least block their path). I think I'll do this.

And I agree that it's frustrating when one of the kings gets killed. I'll change the AI (not python) so Gerald stays beside Zilead and only Theomund targets Gerald.

Rhuvaen
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Re: The Heist campaign

Post by Rhuvaen »

genosuke wrote:On easy, you only need one kill. Just use Gerald's men as shields and attack the wounded enemies. To make it easier, I could swap the AI sides. That way, after your turn, Gerald's units can kill enemies near your units (or at least block their path). I think I'll do this.
Oh, I get two kills or so alright. But I'm playing on medium, where a lot more are needed than that. :wink: I think the discrepancy between easy (which sounds very easy - one kill) and medium (twice as many units for green than what blue has - practically impossible) is too big.
genosuke wrote:And I agree that it's frustrating when one of the kings gets killed. I'll change the AI (not python) so Gerald stays beside Zilead and only Theomund targets Gerald.
This is what always happens to me. It's Theomund who advances into the southern forest, where his own units have a hard time catching up. I always try to surround him with my outlaws in order to protect him from green's units - which is a silly strategy considering the story and objectives!
Maybe increasing his forest movement cost by one would do the trick?

SpenceLack
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Joined: January 22nd, 2007, 4:29 am

Post by SpenceLack »

I too had many problems with Theomund charging to his death.

Maybe the scenario could be changed so the kings are set to "guardian" AI so they can direct the battle from the rear (they are kings after all). Or maybe when one of the kings is reduced to 0 hp they are simply wounded and removed from the map but you still have a chance to win...

multilis
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Joined: November 27th, 2006, 12:36 am

Re: The Heist campaign

Post by multilis »

genosuke wrote: From the wizard's perspective, however, reinforcements are needed. By the time the orcs arrive, there should be around 60 enemies on the map (let me know if there are fewer).
I had him in a box, and it didn't matter how many units he had as only so many could attack me each turn. On the left was the forest full of female peasants backed up by elvish leaders and other help. Below was the castle with deep water. And to the right of that was a wall of his units turned to stone with little holes for a few to poke through (his horses are slow and easy to hit in the forest).

If there was a unit that gave me problems, he became a bat.

To the very right it was solid forest which meant slow going for him and me.

My bird tended to turn horses into stone, it had two shots each with 70% chance, so around 90% chance of success in the forest. Bird tended to pick a safe spot that only the target could attack, I used my best healthy units to protect it.

(The first time I tried the senario, I left my wizard in the upper castle, but eventually his protectors were worn out and i was toast, and second time knowing all the events I played much better)

genosuke
Posts: 57
Joined: June 23rd, 2005, 7:02 pm

Post by genosuke »

SpenceLack wrote: I too had many problems with Theomund charging to his death.

Maybe the scenario could be changed so the kings are set to "guardian" AI so they can direct the battle from the rear (they are kings after all). Or maybe when one of the kings is reduced to 0 hp they are simply wounded and removed from the map but you still have a chance to win...


The scenario should be easier now. Gerald follows Zilead and Theomund stays close to his castle. Theomund will also be removed from the map when killed, as you suggested.

multilis wrote: I had him in a box, and it didn't matter how many units he had as only so many could attack me each turn. On the left was the forest full of female peasants backed up by elvish leaders and other help. Below was the castle with deep water. And to the right of that was a wall of his units turned to stone with little holes for a few to poke through (his horses are slow and easy to hit in the forest).

If there was a unit that gave me problems, he became a bat.

To the very right it was solid forest which meant slow going for him and me.

My bird tended to turn horses into stone, it had two shots each with 70% chance, so around 90% chance of success in the forest. Bird tended to pick a safe spot that only the target could attack, I used my best healthy units to protect it.

(The first time I tried the senario, I left my wizard in the upper castle, but eventually his protectors were worn out and i was toast, and second time knowing all the events I played much better)

Thanks, I'll try to modify the AI so that your strategy won't work anymore. :)

lu_zero
Posts: 196
Joined: April 16th, 2005, 10:25 am

Post by lu_zero »

the Collision looks wrong....

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