What's the deal with the time limit?

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Soliton
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by Soliton »

idn wrote:Also, it would provide scenario makers with a whole lot of different possibilities.
Not sure what you mean here but all that can already be done. So far nobody thought it was worth the effort though it seems.
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roadkill
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by roadkill »

Hmm with more documentation on spawning random enemies and scenario creator could make the scenarios more entertaining with not too much effort.

turn 100 spawn 20 knights... not to hard to think of? pretty much guarantees most players will want to get the scenario done by turn 100, or if they accidentally get to 103 and through the fog of war they get surrounded by knights, it would be fun and memorable, to scrape a victory from this... (either by defeating the knights, next to impossible, or assasinating the enemy leader (risky but you see discussion about this in the strategy forum).

and if we are worried about amassing gold... what about just limiting the gold the player can carry over from one scenario to the next? Its pretty simple... and if set high enough only the people who want to amass RIDICULOUS amounts would complain.

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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by thespaceinvader »

That sort of thing has been done, actually. In Northern Rebirth, there's a scenario which is meant to be unwinnable (the one where you first confront Rakshas, after beating the lich). It's actually possible, with enough high level units, to beat both leaders, and probably to get round and assassinate Rakshas, if you're lucky and quick. So to avoid that, when you get too far from your base, a bunch of goblin knights spawn on top of all the mountains on the map, which are impossible to kill off before the time limit.
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Turuk
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by Turuk »

As Soliton already pointed out, most of this can already be done. Random spawns that can be triggered if the player starts to win (by moving too close to the enemy keep) or just by constantly respawning enemies (such as in South Guard) are already done, but it is just the effort it takes to code these events that the campaign authors do not usually put them in their scenarios.

As to the gold, campaign authors can do that too, either arbitrarily setting how much gold a player will have in the next scenario, or they can implement their own form of percentage to cut back the player's gold.
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roadkill
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by roadkill »

Turuk wrote:but it is just the effort it takes to code these events that the campaign authors do not usually put them in their scenarios.
sry in the above post I ment to say

with more documentation on spawning random enemies a scenario creator could make the scenarios more entertaining with not too much effort.

I've looked through the WML reference for how to do random enemies, or just short-cuts to make my code more effecient, so I can add random enemies to my scenario, however I'm not quite at the point I can do this (and I've studied for hours). If I had a more specific guide on how to add units, random units, and the different ways to do this via WML, I would have done this by now.

Heres a novel idea, alot of the posts on these forums that request ways to change wesnoth, (outside of real programming, more stylistic changes to campaign formats etc...) would probably be more fruitful if the requester simpley learned WML and wrote a low-level, but comprehensive guide, on how to do such things.

a) because alot of newbie contributers would read it and it would then become an option/idea for them to use. and
b) veteran WML coders would gain a better understanding & hence it would be easier for them to do such things.

If its made easier there is a chance it will be done more often.
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Wintermute
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by Wintermute »

idn wrote:It's not the turn limit I dislike, it's the lack of coherent implementation that strikes me. Don't any of you think like that?
The big reason that scenarios have turn limits "by default", is that is helps make the scenario more interesting. If there were no reason to push hard, then the AI would be very easy in most situations. Rather than giving the AI an insane amount of gold, it is easier/nicer/whatever to just push the player along - forcing the player to take risks that wouldn't be needed if time wasn't an issue.

As was mentioned, implentation could improve, from a story point of view - but removing the turn limit is not likely for most scenarios.
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sen2k7
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by sen2k7 »

The turn limit can be quite frustrating at times; makes me have to think and rework my strategy. Just a suggestion maybe after the time limit the player stops receiving gold or start losing gold regardless of how many villages they have. Enemy gets a lump sum of gold maybe?? I just thought of an idea maybe a morale modifier like after turn limit all troops HP is decreased. Or if you complete the time limit the player gets a morale boosts in the next scenario? I'm just spouting out thoughts now probably more appropriate in another posts. Enemy reinforcements would be pretty cool too depending on the scenario and objective.
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Wintermute
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by Wintermute »

sen2k7 wrote:The turn limit can be quite frustrating at times; makes me have to think and rework my strategy.
I think this is the idea, right? If it is too much, then try playing at an easier difficulty level.
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Rimbecano
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by Rimbecano »

idn wrote:
Turuk wrote:Fair enough, but then what you are asking for is not just the removal of the turn limit, but a scenario that keeps running until the player decides it is over?
Not quite. I'm talking about a scenario that keeps running until the player's army dies for real, and not because a message said so.
Most players will decide the scenario is over long before their last unit dies.
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roadkill
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Re: What's the deal with the time limit?

Post by roadkill »

Rimbecano wrote:
idn wrote: Not quite. I'm talking about a scenario that keeps running until the player's army dies for real, and not because a message said so.
Most players will decide the scenario is over long before their last unit dies.
Of course but I think he wants to get to that point.
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