Return to Wesnoth/Test of the Clans

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Kirdan
Posts: 104
Joined: October 25th, 2004, 11:44 am

Return to Wesnoth/Test of the Clans

Post by Kirdan »

ok... I give up. There got to be something really wrong with at least one of these scenarios.

I have no problem winning "Return to Wesnoth", but it costs me all my money are then some - which leaves me with $100 for "Test of the Clans".

No matter how strong units you have, I find it very difficult to win "Test of the Clans" with only $100. Those enemy lancers will kill any of your units they like and you have not enough money for cannon-fodder.
Now, if I only had $200, I think I could win TotC, but there's simply not enough villages in RtW for you to end up with that kind of money. It's no problem finishin early, but you need so many units to do so, that you'll be hopeless in debt when you do.

One of these scenarios needs to be changed.
Doros
Posts: 78
Joined: October 13th, 2004, 4:02 am
Location: USA

Post by Doros »

The real trick is to finish Valley of Statues with lots of gold (200-300), so that you can just recall a bunch of powerful units. High level mages, grand knights, and level 3 elves are pretty nice here. Then you can probably finish off all but one leader and just wait until the last turn to finish (why is there no early finish bonus here?)

If you can get a few hundred gold, you can recall 3 or 4 level 3 horseman, and then recruit a ton of horseman for cannon fodder. Send half your cannon fodder with your high levels towards the main leader to assassinate him, and keep the rest to defend against lancers (they really love to assassinate Delfador).

Even if you do this, though, it's kind of a cheap strategy, probably takes a few tries, and ruins the last scenario (you end up with thousands of gold for finishing Test of the Clans so early, so it's just about impossible to lose).

Either way, the last 4 scenarios need a lot of changes, I think. Here's what I think would be really great:
  • Have petrified soldiers cost zero upkeep in Valley of Statues
  • Have an early finish bonus in Return to Wesnoth
  • Make Test of the Clans less crazy in general
As it is now, I often just stop playing once I get to Home of the North Elves. That scenario is just running from orcs. Then there's a dummy scenario. Then there are the last 3, which are fun the first time just for the story and such, but they need a lot of changes.
Shade
Posts: 1111
Joined: April 18th, 2004, 11:17 pm

Since there are

Post by Shade »

Since there are a lot of complaints about 'A Test of The Clans' I'll look at it when I get back in the next couple of days (If there are no objections from Turin [the Author] or Dave [We all know who he is]). Would sombody be so kind as to PM me a beginning of scenario save of this level? I have a preference for a save 'on medium' from somebody that doesn't save / load a lot... He he, I think my save is from ver. 7.? and is mid-scenario...
Note to forum users: You are in a maze of twisty little passages
quartex
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2258
Joined: December 22nd, 2003, 4:17 am
Location: Boston, MA

Post by quartex »

"Then you can probably finish off all but one leader and just wait until the last turn to finish (why is there no early finish bonus here?) "

I think changing this would make a big difference in alleviating people's gold troubles. You shouldn't force someone to keep hitting "end turn" just to get extra gold at the end of a scenario.
Kirdan
Posts: 104
Joined: October 25th, 2004, 11:44 am

Post by Kirdan »

Doros wrote:The real trick is to finish Valley of Statues with lots of gold (200-300), so that you can just recall a bunch of powerful units. High level mages, grand knights, and level 3 elves are pretty nice here.
Well.. I have. I've even had $397 in the start of RtW. But recruiting "a bunch of powerful units" will let you loose $20 per turn since you don't get within range of many villages until you are in a position to kill the last leader anyway.
By the time I win RtW I have spend all my money mostly due to unpaid upkeep.
Doros
Posts: 78
Joined: October 13th, 2004, 4:02 am
Location: USA

Post by Doros »

Kirdan wrote:
Doros wrote:The real trick is to finish Valley of Statues with lots of gold (200-300), so that you can just recall a bunch of powerful units. High level mages, grand knights, and level 3 elves are pretty nice here.
Well.. I have. I've even had $397 in the start of RtW. But recruiting "a bunch of powerful units" will let you loose $20 per turn since you don't get within range of many villages until you are in a position to kill the last leader anyway.
By the time I win RtW I have spend all my money mostly due to unpaid upkeep.
I try to promote as many loyal units as possible, because it really makes the later scenarios easier. In every scenario from The Sceptre of Fire on, there are very few villages that you can hold.
Kirdan
Posts: 104
Joined: October 25th, 2004, 11:44 am

Re: Since there are

Post by Kirdan »

Shade wrote:Since there are a lot of complaints about 'A Test of The Clans'
As I wrote, I'm not sure the entire problem is with TotC. There's nothing wrong with having a large area battle of 64 turns against a mounted enemy. I think TotC would be winable, if you only had a chance to start with more than $100. ... and that problem lies with RtW.
Shade
Posts: 1111
Joined: April 18th, 2004, 11:17 pm

I can look at both

Post by Shade »

I can look at both. Would you consider PMing me, or emailing me your saves? (That would save me a couple of days of playing, which while fun, I don't have too much time for...)
Note to forum users: You are in a maze of twisty little passages
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Previously someone was always lobbying for boosting the number of turns for return to wesnoth and lowering them for test of the clans. This still sounds like a good idea. The turns for Return to Wesnoth were higher when the scenario was first released and then lowered. It is true that the original turn limit was inflated (and winnable with the time crunch), but in light of the subsequent scenario maybe it was justified.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Invisible Philosopher
Posts: 873
Joined: July 4th, 2004, 9:14 pm
Location: My imagination
Contact:

Post by Invisible Philosopher »

Doros wrote:Then you can probably finish off all but one leader and just wait until the last turn to finish (why is there no early finish bonus here?)
There is too an early finish bonus on all HttT scenarios except The Sceptre of Fire! However you won't get any bonus if you wait until turns run out (obviously).
Doros wrote:If you can get a few hundred gold, you can recall 3 or 4 level 3 horseman, and then recruit a ton of horseman for cannon fodder. Send half your cannon fodder with your high levels towards the main leader to assassinate him, and keep the rest to defend against lancers (they really love to assassinate Delfador).

Even if you do this, though, it's kind of a cheap strategy
You cannot win except by assassination. The enemy will always win a straight battle, because it has huge income (more than from villages - also directly from WML) and you have no income (few villages and high upkeep). And it takes a long time to get to the enemy. So you pretty much have to kill infinite knights to win a straght battle.
Doros wrote:Either way, the last 4 scenarios need a lot of changes, I think. Here's what I think would be really great:
  • Have petrified soldiers cost zero upkeep in Valley of Statues
  • Have an early finish bonus in Return to Wesnoth
  • Make Test of the Clans less crazy in general
As it is now, I often just stop playing once I get to Home of the North Elves. That scenario is just running from orcs. Then there's a dummy scenario. Then there are the last 3, which are fun the first time just for the story and such, but they need a lot of changes.
Agreed (early finish bonus in RtW = more turns there).
Play a Silver Mage in the Wesvoid campaign.
ott
Inactive Developer
Posts: 838
Joined: September 28th, 2004, 10:20 am

Post by ott »

Invisible Philosopher wrote:There is too an early finish bonus on all HttT scenarios except The Sceptre of Fire!
Not so. 9 scenarios in HttT have early finish bonuses as of 0.8.7:
  • A_Choice_Must_Be_Made.cfg
    Bay_of_Pearls.cfg
    Crossroads.cfg
    Dwarven_Doors.cfg
    Elves_Besieged.cfg
    Ford_of_Abez.cfg
    Home_Clan.cfg
    Mountain_Pass.cfg
    Princess_of_Wesnoth.cfg
and these 21 (yes, 21!) do not have bonuses:
  • Battle_for_Wesnoth.cfg
    Blackwater_Port.cfg
    Elven_Council.cfg
    Epilogue.cfg
    Gryphon_Mountain.cfg
    Hasty_Alliance.cfg
    High_King_at_Sea.cfg
    Home_North_Elves.cfg
    Isle_of_Anduin.cfg
    Isle_of_the_Damned.cfg
    Muff_Malal_Peninsula.cfg
    Northern_Winter.cfg
    Plunging_Into_the_Darkness.cfg
    Return_to_Wesnoth.cfg
    Sceptre.cfg
    Snow_Plains.cfg
    Swamp_Of_Dread.cfg
    The_Lost_General.cfg
    The_Siege_of_Elensefar.cfg
    Valley_of_Death.cfg
    Valley_of_Statues.cfg
If we take out the cut scenes (Epilogue, Elven Council) as well as the unused ones (High King at Sea -- what is this anyway?), we are left with 18 that do not have bonuses. This is the reason I explicitly mentioned whether each scenario had a bonus or not in the walkthrough.
User avatar
Elvish_Pillager
Posts: 8129
Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

ott wrote:and these 21 (yes, 21!) do not have bonuses:
  • Battle_for_Wesnoth.cfg
    Blackwater_Port.cfg
    Elven_Council.cfg
    Epilogue.cfg
    Gryphon_Mountain.cfg
    Hasty_Alliance.cfg
    High_King_at_Sea.cfg
    Home_North_Elves.cfg
    Isle_of_Anduin.cfg
    Isle_of_the_Damned.cfg
    Muff_Malal_Peninsula.cfg
    Northern_Winter.cfg
    Plunging_Into_the_Darkness.cfg
    Return_to_Wesnoth.cfg
    Sceptre.cfg
    Snow_Plains.cfg
    Swamp_Of_Dread.cfg
    The_Lost_General.cfg
    The_Siege_of_Elensefar.cfg
    Valley_of_Death.cfg
    Valley_of_Statues.cfg
Barring the cutscenes, Sceptre, and possibly the unused High King At Sea, all give bonuses. There is automatically a bonus for defeating all enemies. If they do not give you a bonus, then it's a Wesnoth bug (of which some appear to exist.)
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
ott
Inactive Developer
Posts: 838
Joined: September 28th, 2004, 10:20 am

Post by ott »

Hmm. Thanks for the clarification. Has this been the case since 0.8?

I'll have to revise the bonus notes, then. Many of the scenarios have alternate winning conditions which do not yield a bonus. What a mess, trying to document all this.
User avatar
Elvish_Pillager
Posts: 8129
Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

ott wrote:Hmm. Thanks for the clarification. Has this been the case since 0.8?
Since 0.7.7 when I got Wesnoth, it has been. I don't know about before.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
Kirdan
Posts: 104
Joined: October 25th, 2004, 11:44 am

Post by Kirdan »

Invisible Philosopher wrote:You cannot win except by assassination.
Hmm... yes. But how much do you need to do that? I've tried 1 Palladin, 3 Knights and 5 Horsemen. ... no luck.
Then I tried replacing 3 Horsemen with Gryphon Masters... A little better, but I still got killed at the last village before Bayar.
Maybe 3-4 fast Gryphons and then when I have the last village (and Bayar comes out to meet you) I recall a bunch of Silver Mages and jump him.... Only problem ... I only have 1 Silver Mage.
Post Reply