The "How to play..." Series

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW » May 8th, 2006, 9:04 pm

Big Bird wrote:hey, are you working on a loyalist one yet cause that is the one i really want! please do that one as soon as you can so i can learn some tips on how to use them to their full potential
JW wrote: This is currently a work in progress, so some of the pages and matchups aren't written out yet, but will come with time. I appreciate your patience.
It will be done, but probably not in the next 3 days, just to give the roughest of estimates.

If a section isn't up yet that you want to read you can always browse the other sections to see how your opponent may play against you and try to learn from that. It will be indirect advice but it may help.


Disto wrote:
jonathantan86 wrote:Hmm...perhaps all the AI developers could use the hints JW supplies here in their AIs?
AI developers?
It's my understanding that writing AI is probably the hardest part of any game. If you don't believe me ask Darth Fool. I heard he's been working on the AI for a year or so now. (Is that right?)

Disto
Posts: 2039
Joined: November 1st, 2004, 7:40 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK

Post by Disto » May 8th, 2006, 9:20 pm

JW wrote:
Disto wrote: AI developers?
It's my understanding that writing AI is probably the hardest part of any game. If you don't believe me ask Darth Fool. I heard he's been working on the AI for a year or so now. (Is that right?)
Darth Fool is only a developer, his AI isn't made for the mainline in particular so he has space to do what he wants (I believe) and also it's more of a project for him, rather then a must do.
Creator of A Seed of Evil
Creator of the Marauders
Food or Wesnoth? I'll have Wesnoth

Yogibear
Retired Developer
Posts: 1086
Joined: September 16th, 2005, 5:44 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by Yogibear » May 9th, 2006, 10:52 am

JW wrote: It's my understanding that writing AI is probably the hardest part of any game.
That's right, improving AI code is probably the most difficult task we face at the moment.

In fact, the AI is pretty good already in skirmishes. That is if you have a front line with 3v3 units, it is good at finding the best way to attack (melee against archers, wounded units prioritized and such).

But it is not good at all at strategy. It does not plan for a couple of turns. It even has difficulties to judge terrain or to take the opponents counter attack into consideration. It could be better with recruiting, too. That is the really hard part to code. And the reason why a good player still beats the AI even if it has twice as much gold.

Overall it is very difficult to put strategy in rules that the AI can understand.
Smart persons learn out of their mistakes, wise persons learn out of others mistakes!

Oreb
Posts: 1278
Joined: September 9th, 2005, 12:30 am
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by Oreb » May 10th, 2006, 9:43 am

Very nice tactics here, You know your stuff. Now this will keep the complaints away of... I can't beat undead with Drakes and so on...

I see you don't know what to do for Rebels, maybe I could offer help. By the way I really like what you did with Knalgans
I am Oreb, Lord of the Darthien
Give your comments to the World of Orbivm

User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW » May 10th, 2006, 11:49 am

Oreb wrote:I see you don't know what to do for Rebels,
It will come, my dear lad. :wink:

User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW » May 12th, 2006, 8:24 am

Update: Undead portion finished.

Finished portions: Knalgans, Undead.

User avatar
Zhukov
Art Contributor
Posts: 1685
Joined: November 9th, 2005, 5:48 am
Location: Australia

Post by Zhukov » May 22nd, 2006, 9:10 pm

This still going? Or has it died in the arse?
(Busting to know how to beat up rebels with northies :twisted:)

User avatar
Thrawn
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2047
Joined: June 2nd, 2005, 11:37 am
Location: bridge of SSD Chimera

Post by Thrawn » May 23rd, 2006, 12:28 am

Zhukov wrote:This still going? Or has it died in the arse?
(Busting to know how to beat up rebels with northies :twisted:)
unit spamming + luck...
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott

this goes for they're/their/there as well

User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW » May 23rd, 2006, 3:15 am

Zhukov wrote:This still going? Or has it died in the arse?
(Busting to know how to beat up rebels with northies :twisted:)
Yeah, I've put this on hold from strategic burnout. I'll be back on it soon hopefully.

PrinceRepulsive
Posts: 32
Joined: May 11th, 2006, 11:28 am
Location: In the lowest room of the darkest dungeon trying to rescue an ugly rat princess.

Post by PrinceRepulsive » July 7th, 2006, 12:53 am

JW wrote:
Zhukov wrote:This still going? Or has it died in the arse?
(Busting to know how to beat up rebels with northies :twisted:)
Yeah, I've put this on hold from strategic burnout. I'll be back on it soon hopefully.
Hey! I don't mean to nag, but is two months enough for your strategic burnout to start burning-IN? Cause I want to know more about loyalists.
I'm no Prince Charming

Flametrooper
Posts: 984
Joined: February 21st, 2006, 11:02 pm
Location: 0x466C616D65

Post by Flametrooper » July 7th, 2006, 1:08 am

Thrawn wrote:
Zhukov wrote:This still going? Or has it died in the arse?
(Busting to know how to beat up rebels with northies :twisted:)
unit spamming + luck...
trolls+archers+assasins are your best bet. The Grunt here has no range, neither does the troll but at least he regens. Archer support is an absolute nessecity. Poison with assasins, and don't let Shamen level up. Nagas beat Mermen in meele but not range, though they are better on land. Spam spears if you're desperate. Attack their archers, mages and shamans with trolls(nagas from water work too), fighters and scouts with archers, and the Wose is the one unit you want to use the Grunt with.
Just a few tips I've picked up from various people, vomited up in a hopefully useful manner.
hey.

User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW » July 7th, 2006, 2:09 am

PrinceRepulsive wrote:Hey! I don't mean to nag, but is two months enough for your strategic burnout to start burning-IN? Cause I want to know more about loyalists.
I've been pretty intensely focused on the Era Of Myths (EOM) lately. Unfortunately I've been burning my Wesnoth-self out on that lately.

And yes, I'm pretty streaky, I know. :(

Frostfire
Posts: 17
Joined: July 31st, 2006, 5:02 am

Post by Frostfire » July 31st, 2006, 10:12 am

good job overall, just hoping you get a rebels section out soon :P
Yogi Bear wrote: But it is not good at all at strategy. It does not plan for a couple of turns. It even has difficulties to judge terrain or to take the opponents counter attack into consideration. It could be better with recruiting, too.
kind of like how instead of making a wraith it made a shadow against knalgans >.>

User avatar
appleide
Posts: 1003
Joined: November 8th, 2003, 10:03 pm
Location: Sydney,OZ

Post by appleide » November 9th, 2006, 7:03 am

JW wrote:
Big Bird wrote:hey, are you working on a loyalist one yet cause that is the one i really want! please do that one as soon as you can so i can learn some tips on how to use them to their full potential
JW wrote: This is currently a work in progress, so some of the pages and matchups aren't written out yet, but will come with time. I appreciate your patience.
It will be done, but probably not in the next 3 days, just to give the roughest of estimates.
Nor in the next 3*two months.
You link people from your sig to here, just to let them find out you havent finished what they are looking for.... 8)
Why did the fish laugh? Because the sea weed.

Lone_Isle
Posts: 60
Joined: November 2nd, 2006, 2:36 am

Post by Lone_Isle » December 21st, 2006, 2:41 am

I find that with drakes, if you try to fight the enemy on their own terms, you will quickly face defeat: every other faction in wesnoth can attain a def % of 60% or better in defensive terrain, while drakes only go up to 40%.

However, on grasslands, suddenly most units of other factions drop down to 40%, a loss of 20% defense, or 30% in the case of dwarves. Drakes drop down from 40 to 30%, a loss of only 10%.

The key then, is to try not to position your drakes next to defensive cover, and to force the enemy into the clearing if at all possible.

Even the most powerful drake damage dealers: the burner and the clasher, falter and lose out in terms of the ratio of damage they take and deal against say an elvish archer in forest.

Whenever possible, attack units with least defensive cover, and position your attackers so that in order to be attacked the enemy has to position on grasslands/low def cover.

Also the "rogue" type of units present a special case: footpads, thieves, fencers and assassins. The answer to these guys is pretty simple: Drake fighters. The drake fighter is the most efficient unit out of the drake arsenal in dealing with rogue units during day. Augurs are usable during night but are fragile.

Post Reply