Beginnings of new faction, testing the water

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Zhukov
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Beginnings of new faction, testing the water

Post by Zhukov »

I probably haven't been around long enough to start proposing this kind of thing but I am thinking of floating the idea of a new Orcish faction. (No details just yet).

I was a tad tired of seeing endless Human factions and Elf clones being suggested so I thought I would fight fire with fire and put forward an idea I have been sitting on for a while.

I intend to think it out for awhile before I post unit trees and stats etc etc. This thread is intended to get a feel for the general attitude toward new factions generally, and especially ones proposed by newbies like myself. I don't want to put any serious amount of effort into an idea just to have it shut down.

So I would be grateful if people could add some comments so I can nut out weather I should start developing the idea further or just forget about it now.

(And a note to the "I-have-been-involved-in-BfW-for-twenty-years-so-don't-mess-with-me" people. Could you try and be just a little civil about things if you intend to reject the idea now.)
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Post by pigandforks »

well i have just noticed you popping up around the place and i noticed some of your art and i like what i see. When you are new around here you will have ideas and think yeah this has a future but i would strongly advise you to look around at everything people are doing. I had a good look and changed my mind quickly about what i was doing.

One thing i would like to say is that i am sick of people using races that are already in the game to make new faction. There are enough things in the fantasy genre to surely come up with something better than another orc faction. Just like we dont need as many elf faction as we have.

Im no expert but i have played enough games to be of some value.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

New factions are not going to be included in mainline unless the art and animations are equivalent or better than the quality of the mainline stuff.

Current candidates for inclusion are:
The aragwathi

Relatively-well-along candidates are:
Dark Elves
Sidhe Elves
Chaos Minions
Lavinians

Candidates that have some things done, but nothing really complete are:
High Elves
Marauders
(and probably a bunch of others).


The current biggest thing holding us back is a sensible means of including the units in mainline. I'm working on that.
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Post by Neoriceisgood »

New factions are not going to be included in mainline unless the art and animations are equivalent or better than the quality of the mainline stuff.
Sweet :D

By the way, Chaos is further in progress than the Marauders? how is this?
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Post by pigandforks »

Also something which is getting on my nerves is lazy mistakes. I have noticed alot of mistakes were the names of images are not matching up with what is in the unit cfg. So if you make a faction double check i have picked these up in almost every user made faction.

I dont think that is a very accurate list either marauders are further along than chaos minions and sidhe elves last time i checked.
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Post by Neoriceisgood »

i have picked these up in almost every user made faction.
Not in mine; I test the units one by one; first how they play and if their basic frame actually looks proper in game; then I add animations, see if those work; and if the unit is fully animated, and it's stats are balanced enough; I put it in my finished units folder :)
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Post by pigandforks »

Well im not saying everyone but im saying almost every even the aragwaith who jetryl puts at the top of the list i have picked up mistakes there.

But Zhukov if you are going to make a faction i would recommend you check out all of the user made faction just to get in touch with what is happening because i think there are still some rather large gaps as far as race ideas. Most faction at the moment are just a new faction of a current race. Which is probably because of the heavy work load involved in making a new race.
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Post by Neoriceisgood »

Liar, the drakes were pretty easy to make; Same goes for Saurians.


It'd be pretty cool if some of the excisting races (other than elves) would be exploited further though.
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Post by Zhukov »

Thanks for the advice pigandforks. If possible I would love to adapt my idea to an entirely new race, rather then just add to the variations of existing races. However I get the impression that the smallest hint of any such concept would be declared 'unwesnothian' and shut down. (Although I don't have any evidence for this...yet)

Thus suggesting a variation of an existing race is in effect the safe option. I chose to focus on Orcs not only because they have some appeal to me, but because there have not (so far as I can tell) been any prior suggestions for alternate orc factions.

I'm going to browse the old forums and see what I can find regarding previous suggestions. I completely agree with your points regarding the lack of imagination when it comes to new races.

Thanks for the advice once again.
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Post by scott »

I think an orc variant would be cool. I once proposed feral orcs, who are less civilized and much more vicious, and ancient orcs, who are more civilized or elite and less vicious (but possibly more evil).
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Post by pigandforks »

If an existing race were to further be exploited i would like to see it happen to a smaller race who arent a faction yet, like trolls. Something like that, but at least there arent a bunch of orc faction around the place. As long as no one ever does another elf faction i will be happy.
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Post by turin »

pigandforks wrote:Most faction at the moment are just a new faction of a current race. Which is probably because of the heavy work load involved in making a new race.
Actually, it is because almost everyone knows that whoever tries that will be flamed into oblivion. :roll:

It is a much better idea to introduce variations on the current races than to (*shudder*) add new ones. Introducing variations adds, well, variety, but adding new ones only IMHO adds stupidity.
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Post by pigandforks »

so what, you are saying there should never be a new race? I personaly am realy open to the concept of a new race more open to it than the re-use of an existing race. Particularly if that race is elves... If a new faction based on a current race is made i think it is best to make it as different from the existing faction as possible and i feel that many people have failed to do that.

Not everyone there are a few user made faction i am a very big fan of, mainly because they have done something very different with the race they have used.
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Post by turin »

pigandforks wrote:so what, you are saying there should never be a new race?
Yes.

However, I also believe that Drakes and Saurians need to be removed, or at least worked over, so most people tend to ignore me when I talk about stuff like this. :roll:

pigandforks wrote:I personaly am realy open to the concept of a new race more open to it than the re-use of an existing race. Particularly if that race is elves... If a new faction based on a current race is made i think it is best to make it as different from the existing faction as possible and i feel that many people have failed to do that.
Yeah. Not all UMFs are good. That's nothing new...
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Post by wayfarer »

turin wrote:
pigandforks wrote:so what, you are saying there should never be a new race?
Yes.

However, I also believe that Drakes and Saurians need to be removed, or at least worked over, so most people tend to ignore me when I talk about stuff like this. :roll:

......
Specieist :wink:

Why don't they fit. Wesnoth itself doesn't fit any fantasy world outside.

What criterias must be satisfied that they are conform to Wesnoth I don't know it myself and I actual dont't care much about it.
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