More Classical Factions?

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Temuchin Khan
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More Classical Factions?

Post by Temuchin Khan »

In the discussions surrounding the Roman faction, a misunderstanding gave rise to an idea for a Greek Hoplite-type faction. Here it is, a bit more fully developed:

Hoplite -> Spartiate -> Pezetairos

The hoplite has a pierce attack and a secondary blade attack. Alone, he is no better than an average warrior. When a group of hoplite are arranged in a line, however, each gives a defensive bonus to the man to his left. And, when a group of hoplites are arranged in a row, each gives an offensive bonus to the guy in front of him.

Therefore, just like in real history, the best way to arrange hoplites would be in a 2x2, 4x4, 8x8, or 16x16 square -- the phalanx. It would be very difficult to penetrate from the front, but vulnerable to flank and rear attacks.

Hoplites should be good in plains and leave the hills to their auxiliaries.

But the Greeks were also great sailors:

Lestes -> Nautes -> Argonaut

These units should be good in shallow water -- but not deep! Ancient triremes had to stay relatively near to the shore. Their use outside the water would have to be very limited.

Given that ancient triremes would ram each other, we could give these units a charge(pierce) attack.

Additionally, a "Hoplite Marine -> Thalassian" line could branch off the Hoplite and, rather than improve its ablity to fight on land, gain the ability to fight in the water.

As to cavalry:

Skopos -> Hippeus -> Hetairos

The Skopos would be no better than a scout, but at lvl 2 it would gain the ability to give units to its left a defensive bonus and units in front of it an offensive bonus. It becomes, that is, a mounted hoplite, and would also be best in the plains.

And the auxiliaries, usually drawn from those too poor to buy armor:

Ptokhos -> Prosaites -> Sphendonetes

These would be slingers -- ranged (impact), and would not be very good on any terrain, but would benefit from the offensive bonus bestowed by hoplites.

And the light infantry:

Gumnes -> Peltast -> Hypaspist

These, though not as well armed as the hoplites and lacking their ability to enhance their allies, would be very good in the hill country, and would have a ranged pierce attack and a secondary close blade attack. The Hypaspist would gain a close pierce attack.

The idea behind this faction is: it starts as a typical ancient Greek army, and advances into the army of Alexander the Great!

Well, there it is. But is there room for more classical units in Wesnoth?

EDIT:

Here's the proposed tree, adjusted a bit and all in one place.

Hoplite -> Elite Hoplite -> Spartiate (good in plains)
-> Marine Hoplite -> Thalassian (good in shallow water)
-> Light Hoplite -> Hypaspist (good in hills)

Seaman -> Nautes -> Argonaut (charge(pierce), good in shallow water)

Horse Scout -> Hippeus -> Hetairos (lvl 1=scout; lvl2,3 ="mounted hoplite"; all levels good in plains)

Staff Slinger -> Elite Slinger -> Sphendonetes (=slinger)

Peltast -> Elite Peltast -> Akontistes (=javelin-thrower, good in hills)

Hoplites should form the bulk of any Classical Greek army. Alexander the Great used cavalry effectively, and at least one Greek general managed to beat hoplites with peltasts, but the hoplite remained the mainstay of Greek armies until the coming of Rome.
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Notice the title of this thread is in the plural. My mind has been bursting with ideas for Battle for Wesnoth factions (and in case anyone hasn't noticed, I have edited my first post), and here is another, inspired by the Gauls and the Franks, with some input from the Scots and the Irish:

barbarian blade (rank and file barbarian swordsman)
-> barbarian brave -> barbarian hero
-> highlander -> highland champion (wields claymore; a bladed weapon with firststrike!)

foolheart -> gaesati -> dog of Culand (berserker-type unit)

boreal militia -> axethrower -> champion axethrower (has ranged blade attack)

boreal rider -> boreal horseman -> boreal warchief (has charge (blade))

They should have strong attacks, average health, and low resistances.

So, two other possible classical-type factions. What do people think?
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turin
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Post by turin »

I like both of them. The greek faction looks interesting (and maybe they're the ones that should be called dardans!), and I think the barbarian faction would make good adversaries of the Romans. Yes, we have the marauders, but they're more vikings than Germanic tribes.

Now, do you think I should try to animate the Roman faction, or work on images for these guys? :P
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Post by unsung »

animate first. its never good star one thing withou finisjing the previous task.

I think the I edea of having several factions in the classicl/imperial (imperial sounds cooler) era is good.
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

I remember i wanted to make a real historical era. but if they have to go inside the world of Wesnoth that's fine too.

As long as i get my sweet historical flavor along with the fantasy one. It feels sweet.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Glad to see my Greeks and Barbarians are well received!

One minor adjustment to the Barbarians: they should have strong resistance to cold, weak resistances to everything else. This idea was inspired by the fact that some Gauls would show off by going into battle stark naked. Not that we need naked men in this faction!

Still, it would add some interesting flavor:

"In their extreme bravado, barbarian foolhearts charge into battle stark naked."
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Re: More Classical Factions?

Post by Attila »

Temuchin Khan wrote:Hoplite -> Spartiate -> Pezetairos

The hoplite has a pierce attack and a secondary blade attack. Alone, he is no better than an average warrior. When a group of hoplite are arranged in a line, however, each gives a defensive bonus to the man to his left. And, when a group of hoplites are arranged in a row, each gives an offensive bonus to the guy in front of him.

Therefore, just like in real history, the best way to arrange hoplites would be in a 2x2, 4x4, 8x8, or 16x16 square -- the phalanx. It would be very difficult to penetrate from the front, but vulnerable to flank and rear attacks.
Actually it would be just as defendable from the sides and back as it would be from the front because there would still be units to the side and in back.
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Post by turin »

Actually, it wouldn't. It is extremely hard to turn around an 18-foot spear, so if you have the formation facing one way, and get attacked from the other side.. you're screwed. Badly.
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

The Frank one needs an axe line, which should end in the Saxon Housecarl, nice big guys carrying axes of their height. Those guys served as heavy shock troops and as specialized garrison for castles and fortresses, getting hit by an axe the volume of your head hurt bad.
turin wrote:Actually, it wouldn't. It is extremely hard to turn around an 18-foot spear, so if you have the formation facing one way, and get attacked from the other side.. you're screwed. Badly.
Well, there were formations to counter that if you want to disregard the whole formation mechanic and just manage them by their stats.

So... Greece... are we getting spartan-looking soldiers then?.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Cuyo Quiz wrote:The Frank one needs an axe line, which should end in the Saxon Housecarl, nice big guys carrying axes of their height. Those guys served as heavy shock troops and as specialized garrison for castles and fortresses, getting hit by an axe the volume of your head hurt bad.
Retainer -> Carl -> Housecarl

And how about this adjustment for the axthrower line:

Freeman -> Axethrower -> Champion Axethrower

or perhaps the lines could be merged:

Freeman -> Retainer -> Housecarl
-> Axethrower -> Champion Axethrower
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Post by Disto »

I know what, once i've done the Marauder's i'll do the Germanic tribe's we'll need a name. And Turin can do the greek style one. Or do you want to swap and see what the others been contending with. As we have the Aragwaith in the Imperial Era i believe we can leave them to be playtested for a while, theres enough flavor for it too wait.
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Post by turin »

Well, right now I'm working on animating the Lavinians. Once I get done with them, I'll probably work on the Maghrabi faction, unless they have someone else before then. Then, I'll take either the Dardans (greeks) or barbarians, whichever is left.
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Post by Disto »

Ok, at my speed i'll finish once you've done the Margharabi so :lol: , it'll probably work out.
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Post by squasher »

so interesting...
we'll have wesnoth in two tastes... phantasy world and ancient world!
Wouldn't it be fun to see these Greeks crushed by the combined armies of Northeners and Elves? :)

maybe, at one day, someone starts to add a 21th century unit three to the game.
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Post by Disto »

There is a Imperial+Default so go ahead, all you need is the Dardans to crush. The imperial Era happened by chance, all these different faction ideas have clashed and so far the 2 with graphics are battling it out through the players.
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