Faction: Kedari (Arabian Nights-based)

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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

Greek fire?.

But greek fire was a concoction throwed out of hoses to enemy ships. This would wreck the ship without having to send men inside them and ensured the destruction of it in a much safer way, unless you burned yourself with it, obviously, but we are talking greeks here.

EDIT: I heart bilingual dictionaries.
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DarthRevan00m9
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Post by DarthRevan00m9 »

If u r going to make mounted units stic with the camals. We need some cavalry unit diversity. All there really r is horses, dead horses, and wolves.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Please, Darth Revan, we can have both horse-riders and camel-riders in an Arabian faction. Besides, an "Arabian" army without Arabian stallions just wouldn't be an Arabian army! If I saw a supposedly Arabian-style army with no horses my reaction would be, "What a gip! How can they call that an Arabian-style army?" Of course, if there were no camels my reaction would be, "What? No camels? What about the Camel-Battle of Basra?" Also, the sheik line should all be mounted on stallions. Arabs love their horses.
"Hand bombs" might work as an alternative name for the grenades. Or how about "fire bombs" or "fire pots"? "Greek fire," however, being the name of the secret weapon of one of Islam's historical enemies, would not work. I like the idea of calling the men who wield them "grenadiers," but that might be a bit too Western. We'd need a more Arabian-sounding name.
Goatfoam
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Post by Goatfoam »

How about:

Blademan -> Dervish -> Whirlwind (fast scout with decent melee but no ranged)
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

What do you think, Azhur? Are regular cavalry (side-by-side with cameleers), regular archers, grenade-throwers, and dervishes (I like that dervish line, Goatfoam) welcome additions to the Maghrabi?
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turin
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Post by turin »

So....

Code: Select all

Heroes:
Prince -> Sheik -> Sultan (Agile warrior and and an average caster)

Units:

Prophet -> Seer -> Oracle (Strong caster)

Efreet -> Genie -> Djinn (Great resistances, fast, wields dual Scimitars)

Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior (Quite agile, survives well in hills and mountains unlike other cavalry units)

Slave -> Eunuch -> Royal Servant (Healer & Poisoner)

Outcast -> Tresspasser -> Marauder (Warrior with a magical ability to grow arms upon himself: lvl 1 = two hands, lvl 2 = four hands lvl 3 = six hands)

Guardian -> Warder (Great defence against normal weapon types) 

Blademan -> Dervish -> Whirlwind (fast scout with decent melee but no ranged)

Horse Rider -> ???

Archer -> ???
I think 9 is a bit too many. Can we prune down the list a bit? My proposed tree:

Code: Select all

Heroes:
Prince -> Sheik -> Sultan (Agile warrior and and an average caster)

Units:

Prophet -> Seer -> Oracle (Strong caster)

Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior (Quite agile, survives well in hills and mountains unlike other cavalry units)

Outcast -> Tresspasser -> Marauder (Warrior with a magical ability to grow arms upon himself: lvl 1 = two hands, lvl 2 = four hands lvl 3 = six hands)

Blademan -> Dervish -> Whirlwind (fast scout with decent melee but no ranged)

Horse Rider -> ???

Archer -> ???
My problem with the Efreet -> Genie -> Djinn tree is, first of all, I don't like the idea of having demons (which is what genies were) as a unit, and second, I don't see what makes an efreet worse than a genie worse than a djinn.

My problem with the Slave -> Eunuch -> Royal Servant tree is, yes, slaves could make good poisoners and such; but they would poison your drink, not run into battle with a poisoned knife and stab you. They never actually fought in battle, they were more of a 'palace intrigue' thing.

My problem with the Guardian -> Warder tree is, I just don't see the point. It looks like just another unit for the sake of having another unit. I guess it could be a branch of a normal unit, but it shouldn't have a tree to itself.

So, there, pruned to 6 level 1 units. I think that's doable, and it won't make an oversized faction.
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ozymandias
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Post by ozymandias »

Well, the Efreets/Djinns could be bound by a treaty - a bit like how the mermen end up with the loyalists and rebels. And I think of them as some kind of spirit (which demon originally meant anyway), not necessarily evil. So I don't see the problem, although I don't think they're a must have, either.

I agree that the eunuch as poisoner/healer is a bit strange, though poison would seem fitting for this faction. I'd propose a alternate upgrade for the Blademan - Assassin would be the obvious choice, but as the name is taken, maybe Scorpion Blade or something like that.

How about combining the Horseman and the Archer line? They could split at level 2 into more melee and more archery oriented types.

Similarly, the Guardian and the Outcast could be combined, with the many-armed guys growing out of the Guardian.
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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

If they are going to be a light units factions, like real mideast people, they would need healing, or abilities.

I think this has gone the abilities way, so i think grenadiers should be added, or something that could have skirmish.

So we could have in the recruit table:

Caster: Prophet
Fighter: Blademan ( the name fits more for the fighter )
Cavalry: Camel rider
Heavy unit: Guardian or Outcast
Archer:
Special: Grenadier-Servant-Assasin?

And they could be cheap cavalry, to work like scouts, we all know the mideast didn't worry about armour much.

EDIT: If the legions factions gets done and the far east too, combined they would kick ass as an era.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

I like the idea of combining the archer and the horseman. In fact, I was about to suggest it myself, until Ozymandias beat me to it.

My own suggestions for an Arabian Nights faction:

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Mameluke -- horseman; wields sword and bow; best on sand and plains
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills; regenerates
Prophet -> Seer -> Oracle -- healer; has leadership
Sufi -> Dervish -> Whirlwind -- scout; has first strike
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn -- caster (gains arms as it advances?)
Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack
Guardian -> Warder -> Grenadier -- throws "fire pots" (i.e., grenades)

Prince -> Sheik -> Sultan -- hero

Seven basic units and a hero. What do you think, Azhur?
ozymandias
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Post by ozymandias »

Nice.

The combination of leadership and healing for the Prophet line is pretty powerful but fitting. Should be expensive and vulnerable, I suppose.

I'm not sure about the guardian having firepots though, seems a bit strange for the name. Where did the eunuchs go? We need big fat neutered harem guards in this faction! Also, as it is, it's all linear lines, and no splits, which is a bit boring.

So how about having the firepots as a alternative 2nd level for the Sufi (Fire Dancer or something like that), or give it to them from the start,
and turn the Guardian into the factions tank.

Eunuch -> Guardian -> Warder
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turin
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Post by turin »

Code: Select all

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Mameluke -- horseman; wields sword and bow; best on sand and grass
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills
Prophet -> Seer -> Oracle -- healer; from 2nd level on has leadership
Sufi -> Dervish -> Whirlwind -- scout; has first strike
     -> Fire Dancer -- throws "Fire Pots"
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn -- caster (gains arms as it advances?)
Eunuch -> Guardian -> Warder -- ???
       -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack
My main changes were, remove regeneration from Camel Riders (since I fail to see why they have it), add Fire Dancer as a branch of the Sufi line, and combine the poisoner and guardian lines. That's 6 level 1 units, which is good enough for me.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

Temuchin Khan wrote:Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Mameluke -- horseman; wields sword and bow; best on sand and plains
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills; regenerates
Prophet -> Seer -> Oracle -- healer; has leadership
Sufi -> Dervish -> Whirlwind -- scout; has first strike

Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn -- caster (gains arms as it advances?)
Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack
Guardian -> Warder -> Grenadier -- throws "fire pots" (i.e., grenades)

Prince -> Sheik -> Sultan -- hero
The ones I highlighted in red aren't good, IMO, because sufis and dervishes are holy men, not warriors. Dervishes are closest to monks, if anything, though the terms are slightly interchangeable. Dervishes basically attempt to commune with God by means of extreme exertion or pain. Some will gouge themselves with long needles, but the most famous, the "Whirling Dervishes," would spin on one foot for hours on end, putting themselves in something of a trance, in which they would be able to better reach God.


A Khazi, or Ghazi was a warrior, having about the same religious status as a Knight.

A sufi is a roving priest, but is noted for disconnection from established religion. Sufis are devout muslims, but against organized religion.

Whirlwind is just a silly name. Please don't use it.

Really, I'd make the following order for healers:
Dervish -> Sufi

With a third unit either before or after those two, depending on whether we can get a good name for either an initiate priest, or a high-level one. As a fallback, "Grand Dervish" would work as a level-3.


Note that green is the color of a holy man in Islamic Society.
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

All valid points, Jetryl! What I was seeking to do was work with Azhur's proposal as much as I could. But I'm all in favor of further refinements! And I'm perfectly fine with eliminating the Sufi->Dervish->Whirlwind line entirely. But we need not eliminate the Prophet line! Muhammad did lead the Muslim community in war, after all!

The idea behind giving the Guardian line the "Fire Pots" was that the Medieval Muslims would mainly use their grenades in defense of cities. Indeed, during the seige of Acre they threw them at Richard the Lion Heart's seige towers!

I'm not sure about having the Hashishan line branch from the eunuch. The Hashishans, a radical Ismaili sect under a leader who took the title of Mahdi, encouraged their assasins to risk life and limb by drugging them, kidnapping them, giving them a free run in the Mahdi's harem for a few days, drugging them again, taking them out, and telling them they'd been given a taste of Paradise and would be returned there if they did the Mahdi's bidding.

Giving regeneration to the Camel Rider was a whim. It can go.
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Post by ryn »

hmm.. interesting. A mideast discussion less than a week before I move to Israel. I could draw up some camels for you guys 8)

Did anyone here actually ride a camel? It's an interesting experience, sort of like riding a donkey with humps. Also, cooking fires are burnt over camel poop to this day. Oh yeah, Arabs make good coffee, so perhaps the third healer's name should be coffee-doctor or something. That is, a guy that heals people by giving them really good coffee. :P
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Temuchin Khan
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

Maybe the Prophet line should be:

Messenger -> Prophet -> Rasul

or maybe:

Seer -> Prophet -> Rasul
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