Remove the grand marshal?

It's not easy creating an entire faction or era. Post your work and collaborate in this forum.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

blackjack
Posts: 173
Joined: February 11th, 2004, 11:12 am

Remove the grand marshal?

Post by blackjack »

I was looking through the thread for "level 4 Konrad", and I noticed that some felt that the level 4 grand marshal could be removed.

I think that such a unit can be quite unbalancing. As a matter of philosophy, I think we should resist unit creep and should try and have as few lvl 4 units as possible. I'm not sure why we need a lvl 4 unit with leadership which can really boost the power of a lvl 3 army significantly. Not to mention that it can really boost a level 1 unit to ridiculous levels.

Right now, the existence of the grand marshal allows for an odd situation in TRoW, when [a certain character] could potentially become level 4, if you really really work at it. I don't know if it adds to enjoyment, but I felt it's a symptom of the "more bigger badder" syndrome that Wesnoth designers have tried to avoid.

Any comments?
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Shadow
Posts: 1264
Joined: September 9th, 2004, 10:27 am
Location: Following the steps of Goethe
Contact:

Post by Shadow »

I don´t see any problems with the Grand marshal you can only get him in the single player else it´s nice if you get a campaign hero that is different to the other units of your army.
... all romantics meet the same fate someday
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes
if
Posts: 18
Joined: December 21st, 2004, 10:43 pm

Post by if »

I think we also need level four units in other races who are act as Primary Leader
Shade
Posts: 1111
Joined: April 18th, 2004, 11:17 pm

As much as this causes an

Post by Shade »

As much as this causes an exception that I'm really, really, not that fond of Turin HAS grown fond of him & I've ifdefed around him... I wouldn't shed tears if he were to go, but how often does anybody see this guy? Besides, when else do I get to say, "This is the exception that proves the rule." That being said, I really wouldn't mourn his loss (or the loss of my ability to use that phrase) for too long...
Note to forum users: You are in a maze of twisty little passages
Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Post by Sangel »

I think that "nobody else gets a level four leader" is a pretty poor reason to remove the Grand Marshal. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The Grand Marshal has a place and works perfectly well in that place. Leave him alone.
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Shade
Posts: 1111
Joined: April 18th, 2004, 11:17 pm

At this point

Post by Shade »

Sorry, let me be clear:

At this point Turin is 'fond' of it. I've ifdefed around it (The level 4 Aethyr was upstaging Haldric & Jessica as the real Hero of TRoW, the way it works out he is hero enough.) AT THIS POINT if Turin is 'fond' of it, I don't really see a huge need for removal to satisfy a 'rule of thumb' (pardon the phrase to those who are 'up on' their historical english common law).

edit: This is from my own usage. I can't clain to know the full effect this unit has in MP, if sombody wants to make a case about that... Well, they can.
Last edited by Shade on March 2nd, 2005, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Note to forum users: You are in a maze of twisty little passages
Darkmoon
Posts: 90
Joined: December 20th, 2004, 7:06 pm

Post by Darkmoon »

I am sure... sooner or later someone will come up wiht a lvl5 unit.... I am sure.. sooner or later there might reason for one,.... then grand marshal wont be even anything near special.

Perhaps in a campaign to topple down lich of all liches... or a mighty Konrad will make some great crusade in some campaign beyond HttT.... will achieve lvl5.... who knows ^_-
Shade
Posts: 1111
Joined: April 18th, 2004, 11:17 pm

It is fair

Post by Shade »

Darkmoon wrote:I am sure... sooner or later someone will come up wiht a lvl5 unit.... I am sure.. sooner or later there might reason for one,.... then grand marshal wont be even anything near special.

Perhaps in a campaign to topple down lich of all liches... or a mighty Konrad will make some great crusade in some campaign beyond HttT.... will achieve lvl5.... who knows ^_-
It is fair for any campaign author who wants to do that to do that. Getting Uber Hero X in to CVS (mainline) might prove somewhat more difficult.
Note to forum users: You are in a maze of twisty little passages
Darkmoon
Posts: 90
Joined: December 20th, 2004, 7:06 pm

Post by Darkmoon »

True.
User avatar
Ankka
Posts: 594
Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 2:40 pm
Location: Finland

Post by Ankka »

Darkmoon wrote:I am sure... sooner or later someone will come up wiht a lvl5 unit.... I am sure.. sooner or later there might reason for one,.... then grand marshal wont be even anything near special.
How about Delfador?
Shade
Posts: 1111
Joined: April 18th, 2004, 11:17 pm

Post by Shade »

Ankka wrote:How about Delfador?
Because Delfador is the most experienced of them all :) And that's the way HttT was designed...
Note to forum users: You are in a maze of twisty little passages
User avatar
Tomsik
Posts: 1401
Joined: February 7th, 2005, 7:04 am
Location: Poland

Post by Tomsik »

My opine is:
LET GRAND MARSHAL EXIST
User avatar
Elvish_Pillager
Posts: 8129
Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

I really don't like the Grand Marshal is good either. I thought it would be good when it was proposed, but it turned out bad.

In EI, it's not good because the only good strategy (IMO) is to have a small group of elite units, and the Grand Marshal just doesn't fit there. If you spend the XP to get him, then either you're far enough along that it makes little difference, or you're early on in the campaign and you just spent a ton of experience that you could have levelled up a bunch of real units with.

In multiplayer, the only other place it's used, it's no good. It doesn't do anything useful, and breaks the "No recruitable non-mage level 4 units" rule.

Also, it prevents my Lieutenants idea from being implemented... :P
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
User avatar
Tomsik
Posts: 1401
Joined: February 7th, 2005, 7:04 am
Location: Poland

Post by Tomsik »

Grand marshal is so big problem?I never seen him, just let him.
User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin »

I am 'fond' of the grand marshal unit idea. But not of the graphics - in fact, i think the graphics are some of the worst in the game. And if no one wants to make better graphics, I think the grand marshal should go.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
Post Reply