Khalifate and Religion

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mameluke
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Khalifate and Religion

Post by mameluke »

A problem that I see touched by the Khalifate is simply said the paradigm "let's keep wesnoth free of religion".

How can I even raise this point?
As I see it, the Khalifate is the only faction which is completely realistic... meaning only humans and a hunting hawk... exactly like the early Muslim tribes.. or lets say how the modern media sees the early Muslims.
It's quite easy to see the Loyalists historically as Christian knights and kings... but at least there was effort to also give different interpretation because it is a game about fantasy and not modern or historical conflicts.
So the Loyalists do have a fish with a spear in their faction, and no crosses on their shields.
But the Khalifate just look like a Moslem war tribe. They could have much more a touch of desert nomads or Persian magic tales (like Aladdin or so).

One way to make the Khalifate more "fitting" would be to give them a unit like a Jinn (or maybe look up some literature about the Tuareg or Berber for different ideas).

I really don't know why the topic of "the crusades" or "holy war" should find his way into the world of Wesnoth.
There are a lot of games concerning this issue and I would feel very unhappy to see this happen in Wesnoth too.

just my 2 pence.
thx

I'm quite sure I get ripped in parts for this topic. But before making wrong statements... look up the meaning of "mameluke" first. thx.
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Dixie
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Dixie »

I don't see why it would be a problem to have the Khalifate the way they are without mentionning religion. Nearly all other factions could be tied to something religious, some way or another, but they aren't. And I'm not sure it's the mere presence of magic and mere people that does this: if the developpers had wanted religion in the game, it'd not have stopped them.
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Velensk
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Velensk »

Completely realistic including healers that make mystic green healing potions (see portrait art).

Mostly I just agree with Dixie. The Khalifate may be inspired by a real world culture which had a real religion but that does not mean that they must be used in a way that is problematic. You can see any conflict in the game any way you please or present it in the campaigns any way you want.
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boru
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by boru »

The "no religion" concept has been debunked many times on this forum. Since UtBS went mainline, it has been impossible to say the devs have a strict prohibition against depictions of worship.

It would be kinda cool to have a djinn though. :hmm: I happened to see this today.
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Telchin
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Telchin »

The "no religion" concept has been debunked many times on this forum. Since UtBS went mainline, it has been impossible to say the devs have a strict prohibition against depictions of worship.
And not only UtBS - the Mermaid healer is named Priestess and her description mention that merpeople have deities. I find it strange that Mermen (made up creatures) can have clergy, but humans (who are known to have priests in real life) have to resort to white magi and paladins who fight for ideas rather than religion.

On topic of the Khalifate being fantasy counterpant culture to the Middle East: I don't know much about Arabian/Persian/Turkish/whatever fashion, but I guess people from similiar climate might dress similiary regardless of their belief (you know, protection from sand and sunburn, etc.). Then again, Kaleh from UtBS lives on a desrt and is depicted shirtless...(Are elves immune to skin cancer?)

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Dixie
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Dixie »

OT: the desert elves are due for a redo, so I wouldn't pay too much attention.
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Rigor
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Rigor »

right now i am reading a book about the caliphate. perhaps you have found out that caliph means successor of the prophet but in case u havent here you go. i imagine the khalifa to be a nomadic tribe from a far away desert, looking for booty with their mighty horses and the best steel in the world. Having a great stamina and self-confidence, they manage to overrun fortified positions very fast and with a good backup (healer) they can retreat into the desert once more.

i miss one thing that was a big issue in the history of the caliphate, that would be some kind of assassin or poison brewer, perhaps it would be the best attack choice for the healing leader (tamib if i am not mistaken) or any other lvl2 u can pick when u level up a unit. one thing i dont care about is how you could mistake a loy v khalifate matchup as religious war. i mean, you could as well say the grunts are like the russians in the world wars where their infinite manpower was used as cannon fodder, or elvish archers versus horsemen make a good setting for a "100 years war" scenario etc. these things never happened in wesnoth because its a fantasy game, nobody really wants to have the work to re-create a historical setup. just browse through the addon list, what i say is true - there is really nothing historical.

i really like to emphasize that in a fantasy setting, i connect the khalifa to 1001 nights before anything else and i wouldnt even think about religion in such a setup. check out this link about 1001 nights, its really a nice overview. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Thousa ... One_Nights

translators, perhaps you can find nice names in this list from the story i told u about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_On ... characters

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Drakefriend
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Drakefriend »

Telchin wrote: On topic of the Khalifate being fantasy counterpant culture to the Middle East: I don't know much about Arabian/Persian/Turkish/whatever fashion, but I guess people from similiar climate might dress similiary regardless of their belief (you know, protection from sand and sunburn, etc.). Then again, Kaleh from UtBS lives on a desrt and is depicted shirtless...(Are elves immune to skin cancer?)
Well, in Ancient Egypt, men went barechested for most of its history, and children and farmers were usually nude, so this coul be use as a counter argument- but, of course, they lived in the river oasis of the Nile and were much arker then the Desert elves...
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Rowanthepreacher
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Rowanthepreacher »

Uh... the early Muslim amies were all about the speed. They defeated the Sassanids at the battle of Nahavand (which was the death blow for the mighty Sassanids) with some excellent mounted archer tactics.

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tr0ll
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by tr0ll »

A note to re-emphasize the distinction between Muslims and regional / ethnic tribes. Islam the religion emerged thousands of years after the people of the regions in northern Africa, middle east and Asia had adopted customs and clothing particular to their climate and cultures and mythologies. Further, Islam is directly descended in prophecy and teachings from Judaism and Christianity, relatively recently and in a small region of the world. So it doesnt make sense to bring Islam or other modern religions into the Wesnoth game.

As others have noted, the 1001 Nights tales and WoTC/D&D Al Quadim modules are probably a more fruitful inspiration for fantasy settings, however flawed or proprietary they may be. If you want to study real-world desert tribes, try Tuareg and Bedouin and Kalahari and Navaho, etc. Certainly each of them have a spirituality and mythology, but it derives from where and when they lived. Therefore, in Wesnoth you should be free to make new ones to meet your story needs if they arent inconsistent with the canon.

UK1
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by UK1 »

As a devout, fundamentalist Christian who believes in God, family, and then country, I was shocked, shocked to find that there was gambling going on here! a faction with Islamic overtones was being added to my wonderful, God-fearing Wesnoth. I propose that an addition of a faction with Christian, crusader undertones is also added to even the score.

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anakayub
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by anakayub »

I hope you're not trollin'.
The Khalifate may be inspired by a real world culture which had a real religion but that does not mean that they must be used in a way that is problematic. You can see any conflict in the game any way you please or present it in the campaigns any way you want.
Take a breath.

Noy
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Noy »

anakayub wrote:I hope you're not trollin'.
The Khalifate may be inspired by a real world culture which had a real religion but that does not mean that they must be used in a way that is problematic. You can see any conflict in the game any way you please or present it in the campaigns any way you want.
Oh he's trolling alright. Maybe not in the way you'd expect.
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crazyking91
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by crazyking91 »

i strongly disagree with you people , people in gulf area and lower Persian areas has always wore that way before islam by a long time and the units don't actually match the way they fought as arabs relied on speed and positioning in their combat and horsemen line doesn't even represent that and the tenten unit looks like the fire thrower unit in command and conquer: red alert so that is quite illogical to me and the names quite so and so example: khalid = immortal , saree = walker. so the only thing that relates to islamic nation is the word "Khalifate" which is how we called the kingdom in the past.

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Chtomorc
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Re: Khalifate and Religion

Post by Chtomorc »

It's a very well known fact that the muslims of the 10th century got firethrower in their common weapon, just as the khalifate.

Wesnoth is a fantasy game ? Give a look to wikipedia about fantasy. The first reference is a mesopotamian story, close to the arabian world.

Keep your mind open ! It's not because Tolkien (bless him for his great books) don't put any arabian in Middle earth (hum, maybe the southerners if I remind well) that they have no place in fantasy.

I'm fed up with all this christian mythologie (brave knight fighting dragon and demon), and khalifate bring a fresh wind (or maybe hot from the desert) to the world of Wesnoth.
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