Wesnoth Forum Era

[tapik]

2) I'd really appreciate having graphical unit trees with some info in them (I volunteer to do the actual trees if you supply me the sprites and info).

AFAIK there will be no tree, but simple flat structure. There will be no leveling.

2 b) The general faction flavour: should it be a expensive but powerful faction? A cheap swarming faction? A swift skirmisher one? etc.
2 c) The generally intended unit roles for each unit within its faction. Should that unit be a tank, a scout, a skirmisher, a glass cannon, or whatever.

Another important information is an idea behind the faction. It will determine unit behavior and, of course, its description.

[Dixie]

There will be two levels of AMLAs. In general, they function according to this principle: Minor upgrades (eg. +3 hp, +1 attack, +1 mp, though varies between units) are infinite, and will add 20% experience. Major upgrades (eg. +10 hp, +2 attack, new ability) are limited and can only only total AMLA'ed a number of times, (I'm thinking like no more than 5 Major AMLAs) and will add 50% experience. Units will start with a low experience requirement, but it will add over the AMLAs. So it is technically possible to eventually get a unit stronger than any Wesnoth mainline unit, but it'd take a heck of a long time. Also, there will be extensive playtesting to balance this, so it _can_ be changed.

About major upgrades: should each unit only have 5 choices, then, or can we plan for more than five, but once five are taken the other are disabled for that unit? It would make unit builds more flexible

@ Tapik:
Yeah, sorry about the word "tree", I understand the structure of the thing. But I'd still like to have images of the units in the same faction as I, and all the info that goes around, so I can design my unit in its role in the faction instead of just putting ideas out there that might not fit well...

[monochromatic]

There can be a good number of choices - can be more than 5, I think - and there probably will be a hierarchy as well (eg. You have to get this Major Upgrade and that Major Upgrade to get this Major Upgrade). So it should be quite flexible as you said, but I'm limiting the max number to something around 5, so the unit can't get too powerful too quickly.

Comparison:
A Minor Upgrade should be equivalent to the AMLA_DEFAULT (+3 HP, +20% xp, though +1 attack or +1 MP may warrant +30% xp though).
A Major Upgrade should be equivalent to around 50% percent of a normal advancement. THey are more substantial and will warrant 50%-80% more exp.

My thoughts anyways.

[Araja]

Ooooo, loving the new system. All the earlier difficulty trying to force unit trees out of completely unconnected sprites, and now we just use custom AMLAs.

Wish we'd thought of that earlier

[Dixie]

Another idea to limit the number of major upgrades could be:

M = Max number of Major upgrades a unit can have at any time.
m = number of minor upgrades a unit has already picked.

M = m/2 + 1

That way, the first upgrade can be a major, and a unit needs to pick two minors before being allowed another major. Or one could just stack minors if one wished, for whatever reason.

[tapik]

Yet another idea about AMLAs. Let's implement the AMLAs as "set of AMLAs possible at the current level of unit":

• Each advacement means new unit level
• Each unit level specifies a set of possible AMLAs
• AMLAs could support levelling, too.
• As written before, AMLAs (or their levels) could define a dependency tree.

[AlaskanAvenger]

just my two cents, but I prefer being able to get them in any order, as I think it would add more variety and personal preference

[tapik]

just my two cents, but I prefer being able to get them in any order, as I think it would add more variety and personal preference

It depends on unit. Each unit could have a background, its own story. And the same could apply to AMLAs.
Simple example: swordsman has two AMLAs. "In the darkness in the deep forest he found a golden crossbow."-range attack 7-1, "After two years of usage he improved his skills with the golden crossbow"-range attack 10-2. Is it clear?

[Dixie]

Somehow, I think the gaining of levels will be lacking (increased upkeep of uber units, xp prize in killing a uber unit, etc.), but I'm not sure Tapik's way (gain a level with each advancement) is the good way, because advancements are likely to be much more frequent in TWFF than in mainline wesnoth. I have two ideas on how to determine a unit goes up a level, but I'm not sure either is satisfactory:
- Units go up a level for each Major AMLA they pick;
- If you keep my previous formula on how to determine the Major AMLA cap, units could go up a level for each three AMLAS (which would likely be a Major and two minors, in this case).

Tapik's idea of discriminating certain advancement paths on current unit level is interesting, though, but probably up to the designer of every single unit

just my two cents, but I prefer being able to get them in any order, as I think it would add more variety and personal preference

If you are aiming this comment at my formula, I think you understood wrong. It won't force a certain order. You could get M,m,m, or m,M,m, or m,m,m,m,M,M,M, or whatever. It's essentially to determine the cap of major AMLAs, because people will likely want to pick those first, and it felt more natural than an arbitrary "5 allowed, top!". But that's just my opinion.

[tapik]

- Units go up a level for each Major AMLA they pick;

You are right. A minor improvement cannot increase the unit price. If the TWFF is used in a campaign, units at level 15 could come very easy and you will not be able to recall such units because of their per turn price

Tapik's idea of discriminating certain advancement paths on current unit level is interesting, though, but probably up to the designer of every single unit

It was in my mind When the first lua script for such AMLAs is written, all of us coders could implement our own ones

[AlaskanAvenger]

If you are aiming this comment at my formula, I think you understood wrong. It won't force a certain order. You could get M,m,m, or m,M,m, or m,m,m,m,M,M,M, or whatever. It's essentially to determine the cap of major AMLAs, because people will likely want to pick those first, and it felt more natural than an arbitrary "5 allowed, top!". But that's just my opinion.

No, was referring to Tapik's post.. I think your formula is a great idea

[Battlecruiser_Venca]

or maybe use the system as XP era has?

[Pentarctagon]

out of curiosity, are the AMLAs going to be generic AMLAs used by everyone, or are they going to be more tailored to the specific unit or unit types?

[tapik]

out of curiosity, are the AMLAs going to be generic AMLAs used by everyone, or are they going to be more tailored to the specific unit or unit types?

I think that both kinds are possible. I think that minor AMLAs should be generic and major ones should be unit specific (or faction specific).

[Pentarctagon]

Ok, sounds good. The only potential problem I see would be if some units have significantly lower starting xp requirements than other units (like 15 compared to 30), though smaller differences would become more apparent over enough AMLAs.