Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

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TheWesnothian
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by TheWesnothian » April 21st, 2008, 9:28 am

That's cool. Good job !

peet
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by peet » April 22nd, 2008, 6:34 am

Ken Oh wrote:Exactly, Velensk.

Remember Peasant can become either Spearman or Bowman. These are mainline units too.

So, no, I don't think one guy who swings a club is too different from another guy who swings a bigger club and has more armor.
I think there is a dramatic difference between the two units, for a couple of reasons.

First, the Thug is chaotic while the HI is lawful. This reflects a profound difference in outlook between the two characters. I have a hard time with units that will "convert" to one side or the other.

Second, the HI is a much more expensive and more powerful unit than the Thug. If one unit is going to be able to level into either, it should be forced to pay some kind of penalty for leveling from the level 0 to an HI. Perhaps some extra gold could be deducted (to reflect the cost of all that armour).

Peet

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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei » August 20th, 2008, 2:26 am

Before I found this topic I've started to work on the same idea like the Squire you are trying to make.
= A Level 0 Horseman to advance into either Cavalryman or Horseman.
I've named it Light Cavalryman but it isn't a very good name.

That's my topic:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21775

But I suggested slightly different hp, mp, xp, attacks ...

Cost: 10 or 11
HP: 20 or 22
MP: 6 or 7
XP: 25


8 - 1 melee (pierce) (charge)

If "charge" is too precious for a level 0 Unit we could give him a
7 - 2 melee (pierce)
or
9 - 1 melee (pierce)
Attack instead.

I really would give the Squire a Horse - even if it is a smaller one (like I did) - ,
give him no armor and some sort of tape around his head like the assassin --> Todo

Here are the two images I already made in comparison to the Horseman:
Attachments
Squire with wooden Spear
Squire with wooden Spear
horseman + ruffian4.png (3.85 KiB) Viewed 2584 times
Squire
Squire
horseman + ruffian2.png (3.71 KiB) Viewed 2588 times
Horseman
Horseman
horseman.png (1.69 KiB) Viewed 2584 times

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Mica
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Mica » August 20th, 2008, 7:20 am

Because of the crash, this topic's updates aren't included. You'd then know that Elves, Humans, and Orcs I believe are all finished.
Mica says one who cheats, cheats himself.

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Ken_Oh
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Ken_Oh » August 20th, 2008, 11:43 am

Very cool.

I wouldn't stay it's too powerful for anything other than the cost. It's way better than peasant in just about every way but it only costs a few more gold.

My squire is on foot, but some (like peet) would argue that it should start on horseback. Your sprites would be a good alternate. Make the rest of the animations for the unit (FYI I like the first sprite) and I'll include the alternate unit.

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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei » August 20th, 2008, 12:16 pm

Mica wrote:Because of the crash, this topic's updates aren't included. You'd then know that Elves, Humans, and Orcs I believe are all finished.
Sorry, I didn't knew. Could someone post the newest version of the units again? Would be great.
And are the animations for the human units also finished?
Ken Oh wrote:I wouldn't stay it's too powerful for anything other than the cost. It's way better than peasant in just about every way but it only costs a few more gold.
Yeah, but if we make it more expensive, people could get confused whether it is L0 or L1...
Ken Oh wrote:My squire is on foot, but some (like peet) would argue that it should start on horseback. Your sprites would be a good alternate. Make the rest of the animations for the unit (FYI I like the first sprite) and I'll include the alternate unit.
Well, we did quit the same thing: Take the Ruffian head and stick it on a other unit. :)
But now I did another edit of it and gave him a kind of a tunic except the right arm with the spear. I thought the arm with the weapon could have armor but the rest not.
Attachments
Squire with tunic and wooden spear
Squire with tunic and wooden spear
horseman + ruffian6.png (3.66 KiB) Viewed 2545 times
Horseman
Horseman
horseman.png (1.69 KiB) Viewed 2543 times

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Mica
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Mica » August 20th, 2008, 12:46 pm

Looks pretty cool, but I think that he needs a steel head on his spear, the wooden spear is no where near strong enough and is generally only good for spear-fishing and hunting animals.
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markm
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by markm » August 20th, 2008, 1:00 pm

He probably knows that, and hopes to find such a piece of steel somewhere on a battlefield in the course of levelling up into a horseman. :) Its already been mentioned somewhere that he is a bit overpowered for his cost. He's intended to be a not quite up to military grade par kind of unit, after all.

It might be though that even fire-hardened-point wooden stick might not match the damage the unit is purpoted to do? Once the balancers are through working out the numbers (damage, cost etc) we'll have a better idea just what kind of spear and what kind of armour seems to match the stats that balance requires?

Lovely little chap though, isn't he? :)

-MarkM-
Developing Between the Worlds campaign portmanteau.
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Blarumyrran
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Blarumyrran » August 20th, 2008, 1:07 pm

a mounted unit will always look more like level1 than level0 unless you resize the horse to some micro-pony.

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Mica
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Mica » August 20th, 2008, 1:21 pm

Or perhaps give him a donkey. :P
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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei » August 20th, 2008, 2:01 pm

Mica wrote:Looks pretty cool, but I think that he needs a steel head on his spear, the wooden spear is no where near strong enough and is generally only good for spear-fishing and hunting animals.
I disagree. I totaly agree with markm that only leveling up should give him a steel head, because each time a horsemen levels up, his weapon changes... (wood --> steel head --> lance)
I thought for the reason of breaking the spear after one use, we only should give him a single attack,
such as:
8 - 1 melee (pierce) (charge)
Syntax_Error wrote:a mounted unit will always look more like level1 than level0 unless you resize the horse to some micro-pony.
I already reduced the size of the horse 1px. But that's probably not enough. :) I could try to additional change the color of the horse in something darker more donkey-like and give him a tail not a hair one (I don't know the english word, sorry :oops: )
Other question: should I cover his right arm also in the tunic or leave it?

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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei » August 20th, 2008, 3:09 pm

Another edit with removed TC on the right arm. Because of the tunic I think we don't need more TC stuff.
Attachments
New Squire
New Squire
horseman + ruffian7.png (3.63 KiB) Viewed 2473 times
Old Squire
Old Squire
horseman + ruffian6.png (3.65 KiB) Viewed 2480 times

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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei » August 20th, 2008, 5:36 pm

Mica wrote:Or perhaps give him a donkey.
Yes I did. :D I changed the color into the grey of the knight. And I made a donkey tale.
Donkeyman
Donkeyman
horseman + ruffian9.png (3.54 KiB) Viewed 2450 times
I tried to make the ears longer but it didn't work that well. Anyway
I like it. :D
I think it's time to take a vote for the best Squire.
Here are all the possible looks in comparison.
Attachments
Squire Comparison - Please vote
Squire Comparison - Please vote
Squire Comparison.png (9.63 KiB) Viewed 2448 times

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Mica
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Mica » August 20th, 2008, 6:24 pm

Wood won't really pierce armor though, especially those dwarves. I think it should still have something else, possibly brass or bronze instead of steel?
Mica says one who cheats, cheats himself.

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Max
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Max » August 20th, 2008, 6:35 pm

it would be a bit strange if the horse changes color twice during leveling up.

and i think the horse (even if it's a pixel smaller still) looks the same size. i've tried to shorten it's legs a bit, i think this works better in terms of having it look not only smaller but also "cheaper" / less noble.

(i messed up the shadow, i'm not that good with gimp^^)
Squire Comparison.png
Squire Comparison.png (10.07 KiB) Viewed 2452 times

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