Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

rhyging5 wrote:yeah my english is not good....but not enought bad to need someone else to try to explain me. Seems that you understood exactly what I mean.
I'm afraid you aren't as clear as you think you are. I may have guessed correctly that time, but it was a guess. I had no confidence that it was the right guess.
rhyging5 wrote:About the screenshot I used, I'm know is not your definitive version...Only I have pretended to show "alternative" version of reflection. Seems that you feel I disturb your work. Then is better that you say what exactly want from me on these transitions art.
Oh, that wasn't clear. That time i didn't understand you.

I'm open to suggestions on the reflections. I realized that the reflection part doesn't look very good, and am not sure what the best approach is yet.

I just didn't want to you do the work making waves to the wrong shore. I'm often not entirely sure that you understand me.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Jetrel
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Jetrel »

Eleazar wrote:They just don't look natural, or even like flowers to me, i keep thinking of plastic confetti. I'm gonna try taking out the purple, or at least severely reducing it.
Since the flowers usually bloom in phases, maybe having them more monochromatic? Only one or two colors of flower, instead of the whole rainbow.
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rhyging5
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by rhyging5 »

eleazar,
I still think that I said just want I want to say.....but I not want to enter in a "dialeg de vesugos".....expresion in my native language that means a conversation betwen two persons that is not interesting.......I'm talking from humour :wink: .......What is more interesting is the work we have in our hands :) ......I have others "river waves" attemps. Take a look, please. Note that there is a "jump" on the animation. This is because I still working to do the bucle. It is just a attemp.
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

rhyging5:

That looks very good. :D


AI PMed this to me, but i think this discussion may be more useful in public.
AI wrote:There are some issues with the water transitions:
-Custom terrains don't have any transitions with the new water, meaning the hex boundaries are hard-edged.
-There are some oddities with the water-water transitions, probably invisible with the normal water types, but quite visible with my Wwb terrain.

The custom terrains in the below image are Yhs, one of the versions of the shaxthal hive, Wzb, a recolored version of the old water, with the old transitions and Wwb, a dynamically recolored version of the new terrain.
terrain.jpg
I've had to change filters in the original transitions of Wzb to stop it from mixing with the new shore transition, but I'd prefer to not use the new shore transitions at all for Wzb. With the mainline macros using W* as a filter though, that'd require me to change the symbol.
I don't know very much about how custom terrain definitions interact with mainline terrains, since i've put all my time into mainline.

First be aware that i'm very much in the beginning of a big process. Nobody (especially not me) entirely understands how our terrain-graphic work. Terrain-graphics.cfg is like a house that's being lived in and thoroughly renovated. And there's more walls to be torn down, before i get to paint and wall-paper.

Custom terrains don't have any transitions with the new water
I'm not entirely sure what to do about that, but something needs to be done. I'll be introducing a couple more banks perhaps, so one of them needs to be made the default.
-There are some oddities with the water-water transitions, probably invisible with the normal water types, but quite visible with my Wwb terrain.
That's a layer order issue. You either need to make your Wwb transitions higher than the Ww transitions, or move all of Wwb lower
...but I'd prefer to not use the new shore transitions at all for Wzb. With the mainline macros using W* as a filter though, that'd require me to change the symbol.
I think i'm doing the right thing here. The banks i'm making are intended to be universal transitions to water, and have pretty complicated layer interactions. I think in most cases UMC authors who make custom water terrains will want these transitions, and it wouldn't be practical for them to recreate the bank, if i didn't wildcard all "W" terrains. In short, the best solution IMHO is if you don't want normal water transitions, don't name the terrain with an inital "W".


Don't worry about the "Jm", "Jy", and "Jb" terrains, they are just for testing, and shouldn't show up on any map.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

A little more work on the chasm, before launching into several things that use the chasm:
mostly increased definition, and giving villages and bridges on chasm's edge a bit more room.
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chasm.jpg
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AI
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by AI »

Wwb was at layer -550, I've moved it to -565, which caused different issues:
terrain2.png
This is the WML Wwb and Wzb use.

Code: Select all

# Blood pool
#define BLOODY
~CS(75,-255,-255)#enddef
#define BLOODY_ANIMATION_15 IMAGESTEM POSTFIX
{ANIMATION_15_INTERNAL {IMAGESTEM} {POSTFIX}.png{BLOODY} 100}#enddef

{TERRAIN_BASE_B           Wwb                BLOODY_ANIMATION_15  water/coast}
{TRANSITION_COMPLETE_LB   Wwb W*        -565 BLOODY_ANIMATION_15  water/coast}

{TERRAIN_BASE_P           Wzb                 30                  blood3}
{TERRAIN_BASE_P           Wzb                 43                  blood2}
{TERRAIN_BASE             Wzb                                     blood}
{TRANSITION_COMPLETE_L    Wzb (!,W*,M*,R*,G*,U*,Xu) -900          blood}
And the WML for Yhs, which I've recently ported to the new terrain macros, though I'm not entirely sure I did it right. (it looks good with all other terrain though)

Code: Select all

{TERRAIN_BASE             Yhs                  dark-hive/surface               }
{TRANSITION_RESTRICTED          Yhs (!,Yhs,Uh,H*,M*,W*,S*,Q*,Ryd,Rr,Rp,Ds) (dark-hive/surface)}
# HACK: Wesnoth 1.6 RC 1. Define a custom Re transition, as
# the default mainline one is drawn below Yhs and looks awful.
{TRANSITION_RESTRICTED_LF       Yhs (Re)     -333    transition3           (dark-hive/surface)}

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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

AI wrote:Wwb was at layer -550, I've moved it to -565, which caused different issues:
That's pretty weird. It shouldn't do what it's doing -565 should put its transitions below all the other water terrains. I think there's a glitch in code or macros somewhere, but transitions work entirely as expected for the 3 mainline water terrains.
AI wrote:And the WML for Yhs, which I've recently ported to the new terrain macros, though I'm not entirely sure I did it right. (it looks good with all other terrain though)
As far as i know the new macros can be used just like the old ones were, i.e. if you swap out the new macro name for the old one you should get essentially the same result. If it looks right, you did it right.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Almost finished, my new standard castle-to-chasm transition.

Btw, i'm using boucman's new multi-hex transition feature, which is came in quite handy.
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castle-cliff.jpg
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

OK, committing the castle-chasm.
Now with random alternates.

Had to cut the tiles rather oddly to make this work.

Lava still to come.
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castle-chasm-n.png
castle-chasm-n.png (11.56 KiB) Viewed 3252 times
castle-chasm-nw.png
castle-chasm-nw.png (9.93 KiB) Viewed 3252 times
chasm.jpg
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

I've talked to AI a little bit more about custom terrains, and associated problems.

Some observations:

* The mainline campaigns that have custom terrains, use terrain codes that have "z" or "y" in them about half the time. "Z" and "y" are reserved for UMCs, and apparently it is unclear if that should include mainline campaigns in this case.

* Technically any non-core (or non mainline) terrain should have a "Z" or "Y" (UPPER or lower case), in the terrain code. Core terrain codes avoid those letters, so terrain code conflicts can be avoided.

* We could reserve a different letter for mainline campaign's custom terrains if accidental overlap is a concern, (J, N, O, P, and T) are available as initial letters. Probably only J isn't used at all, except for my recent test terrains which can easy be changed

* Mainline campaigns and UMC's tend to use editor group buttons that look identical. Providing a different button appearance should help clarify things.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Boucman
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Boucman »

I intend to add some more test terrains at some point, mine will be to test the bridge macros, stay tuned...
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

OK, as per previous post, i made the editor groups of mainline campaigns look different from UMC editor groups.

I also gave UMC's 3 different colors of icons to choose from, so we no longer have a bunch of anonymous star icons at the bottom of the editor group.
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groups.jpg
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Early preview of the wood floor. Obviously there are tessellation issues, but i think the color, perspective and size are about right.
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wood-floor.jpg
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

Switched that end-of-scenario overlay from slate grey, to a natural sepia color.
Picture 11.jpg


EDIT: I split out discussion of Cave/Outdoors Color Harmonization and Illumination to this thread.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Eleazar
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Re: Eleazar's Terrain Improvements

Post by Eleazar »

This was a lot harder than expected.

Finally found colors for the dry hills that mesh with the dirt and dry grass, and yet don't look odd with other terrain.
Attachments
dry.jpg
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

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