northerners vs undead , heroes age

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dalk
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northerners vs undead , heroes age

Post by dalk »

I have played some games with northerners vs undead with eroes age and i noticed that it is almost impossible to win.
The wraiths are just too good, ok they are quite expensive(34 gold) but as a northerner you cant do anything against them.
I tried orcish archers, orcish crossbows, goblin pillagers,...
melee units and assassins are just useless and the archers do as much damage with fire as with normal arrows against them, and they lack a decent melee so the wraiths can just replenish their hp on them.
The pillagers are too expensive and dont win a battle vs a wraith, and have low hp, although they sometimes manage to damage them.
you dont have a good time to attack them and any injured wraith can escape quickly because of their speed and only take 2 or 3 turns to heal to full health.
and should u recruit mostly archers, a few skeletons ruin your day.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to beat this all- wraith tactic
mostly coupled with a few shadows and skeletons?

if there is none, i suggest raising the fire attack of the crossbow archers.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Age of Heroes is currently nowhere near balanced. If you want to see it balanced, lend your support here to the only practical proposal.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
telly
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Post by telly »

For wraiths, attack them in the day with archers or pillagers after slowing them. If you weaken their melee so they can't drain so much hp back, they aren't much of a problem. You need to use zone of control as well to hold them so they can't retreat. Trolls will eat up skeletons.
dalk
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Post by dalk »

telly wrote:For wraiths, attack them in the day with archers or pillagers after slowing them. If you weaken their melee so they can't drain so much hp back, they aren't much of a problem. You need to use zone of control as well to hold them so they can't retreat. Trolls will eat up skeletons.
Problem is that pillagers are quite expensive and you need at least 4 to kill a wraith during the day, and the trolls have very low defense and dont deal much damage so they just replenish the wraith's hp.the archers deal only 2-3 or 3-2 damage so, they are almost uselesscaus they have a very bad melee too, so the wraith can replenish his hp too. And even if you manage to surround and destroy it with pillagers, the pillagers will be heavily damaged from the 7-4 attack.
ereksos
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Post by ereksos »

to begin with, this should be in the strategies and tips section :P

from ur post i see what's ur problem. well, the simplest and definite solution is: why take the initiative to attack? wraith has 50% terrain res, but ur pillager or orcbow can have 60%. better yet, put ur units in villages and let them come to u. see how easily u can destroy a wraith with ur pillager in a village? even a orcbow in a village has a very good chance of killing a wraith 1 v 1.
having said that, shadow is a completely different problem. shadow really rocks! with backstab, it can annihilate a full health pillager while working in concert with an skel archer for example.

the catch for a shadow is this, they have to use backstab to be effective and they r not range. so just make sure to keep ur units back watched and if the shadow dares to come near, just shoot them with orcbow and finished them with pillager (or attacked them with pillager and destroy them with orcbow :P).
just watch out for those harmless looking sneaky bats though!
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Doc Paterson
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Re: northerners vs undead , heroes age

Post by Doc Paterson »

dalk wrote:I have played some games with northerners vs undead with eroes age and i noticed that it is almost impossible to win.
The wraiths are just too good, ok they are quite expensive(34 gold) but as a northerner you cant do anything against them.
That's ridiculous; there's plenty you can do.

I'd like to set up a game between you (playing Undead) and my man Ereksos here (playing Northerners). You're looking for answers in this matchup, and I think you'd be enlightened.
8)

Post up when you'll be on, because I'd like to watch the game, if possible.

I know Ereksos operates in Singapore-time. :)
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telly
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Post by telly »

Recruiting level 2 units is a waste of gold anyway imo. I'd say the shadow and necro are more useful than wraiths now but even those aren't worth buying against 2-3 level 1 units most of the time. And none of the undead lvl2 units are significantly better than orc warriors which only cost 22gp.
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Post by Doc Paterson »

telly wrote:Recruiting level 2 units is a waste of gold anyway imo. I'd say the shadow and necro are more useful than wraiths now but even those aren't worth buying against 2-3 level 1 units most of the time.
Agree x2.

8)
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Doc Paterson wrote:
telly wrote:Recruiting level 2 units is a waste of gold anyway imo. I'd say the shadow and necro are more useful than wraiths now but even those aren't worth buying against 2-3 level 1 units most of the time.
Agree x2.

8)
You guys think the current costs are too much? Hmm, maybe my formula could use a bit of cheapening...
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
dalk
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Re: northerners vs undead , heroes age

Post by dalk »

Doc Paterson wrote:
dalk wrote:I have played some games with northerners vs undead with eroes age and i noticed that it is almost impossible to win.
The wraiths are just too good, ok they are quite expensive(34 gold) but as a northerner you cant do anything against them.
That's ridiculous; there's plenty you can do.

I'd like to set up a game between you (playing Undead) and my man Ereksos here (playing Northerners). You're looking for answers in this matchup, and I think you'd be enlightened.
8)

Post up when you'll be on, because I'd like to watch the game, if possible.

I know Ereksos operates in Singapore-time. :)
Sounds like a great idea but i wont be on this week, i'll post later on when i can play(exams :s), and i only play with northerners so i could end up losing simply because i dont know how to play them effectively.

As for the lv 2 units, i know they are much too expensive but the problem is that you cant even damage wraiths with lv 1 orcs, let alone kill them, i mean:
grunts and trolls and goblins are just useless, attacking them would cause them to end up with more hp then before.
assassins cant poison and are weak to blade.
wolfriders can be used as scouts, but attacking wraiths with them is justinsane.
the archers only deal 3-2 or 2-3 during day, and thats the best time to attack, and with a 1-2 attack on melee they just refuel wraith's hp.
and when you stay on the villages, the wraiths just ignore it, you cant man every village with a 28 gold unit.
the pillagers have low hp too, so they wont hold very long against multiple lv 2 units, and without a strong defense line of zoc( what you get when you stay on villages), the shadows just own you. (20-3 at night), and you'll get less gold then your opponent.
ereksos
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Post by ereksos »

i haven't try to take out an undead shadow-wraith specialist without using pillager before. so i wouldn't venture to say getting lvl 2 unit is a waste. i have a feeling it could be pretty hard. i met a guy nickname vincent who is a shadow-wraith specialist, with his own setting and all that, i was literally grind to dust in my first game with him. though i won the subsequent two, i am still impress with the strategy. i will see if i could beat him with all lvl 1 units next time. as for a game with dalk, i am all set :D. or better yet, a few games with doc pat will be even nicer :P.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

IMO, Wraiths and Shadows are still as overpowered as they were months ago. Among other things, I suggested 5-4 for Wraiths's melee and 7-3 for Shadows.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
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Post by Doc Paterson »

Elvish Pillager wrote:
Doc Paterson wrote: Agree x2.

8)
You guys think the current costs are too much? Hmm, maybe my formula could use a bit of cheapening...
I can't say, having never seen this formula.

Lay it on me.
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because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson »

ereksos wrote:as for a game with dalk, i am all set :D. or better yet, a few games with doc pat will be even nicer :P.
Yeah, sorry, I've been in Toronto.

:)

I've returned to find my computer unable to connect to the internet (it's always something different with my computer :? )!

Hopefully, I'll figure that problem out soon....in the mean time, I'm limited to forums on friends' computers.

Nice avatar, by the way.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
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dalk
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Post by dalk »

ereksos wrote:i haven't try to take out an undead shadow-wraith specialist without using pillager before. so i wouldn't venture to say getting lvl 2 unit is a waste. i have a feeling it could be pretty hard. i met a guy nickname vincent who is a shadow-wraith specialist, with his own setting and all that, i was literally grind to dust in my first game with him. though i won the subsequent two, i am still impress with the strategy. i will see if i could beat him with all lvl 1 units next time. as for a game with dalk, i am all set :D. or better yet, a few games with doc pat will be even nicer :P.
Hey, i lost to vincent too.
But did you use northerners?
I can imagine it's much easier to beat that strategy with mages, burners, undead(nullifying drain and high resistances) or some dwarves with high resistance to blade.
Furthermore, i dont want to say i'm a veteran in this game or anything like that, but i just want to say i'm quite good with northerners now, so i doubt i will learn a lot about playing orcs from watching or playing one game, but it will be an intersting game anyway.
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