3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.7.0 [Complete]

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MrEPIC
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.1 [Complete]

Post by MrEPIC »

Thanks for uploading the saves, anuviel. I think that I have a fix for the issue. I changed only a little bit of the code before I found out that if you just load a savegame from the 'load game' option at the top of the multiplayer lobby, you will start the next scenario with the correct settings. I went ahead and uploaded a new version anyways, a brief changelog is on the front page (but I'm tired and probably forgot to put in a few things).
The reason that your master at arms's melee attack was not affected by the light sword or superb swordsman upgrades was because he doesn't actually have a sword, his attack's name is called a 'sabre.'
3 player co-op campaign: The Haunted Woods (v1.6.19)
1v1 campaign: Tug of War (v0.4.0)
anuviel
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by anuviel »

Thanks. So basically I would need to start from the beginning? I updated the game but when I load it is still giving me the default leaders in the 3rd scenario. Sorry if I'm slow to get it...
anuviel
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by anuviel »

Hm, still seems to not be working for me.

I just started a new game and saved it right away. I then quit the game and after that I loaded the game. I finished the first scenario without buying any upgrades and when the second scenario started the names of the players were changed to thwp again and the colors reverted back to the original team colors.

Seems like an awesome campaign would really love to play all the way through with the leaders I choose and the side name Anuviel instead of thwp.

No idea what could be causing the issues I am encountering.

What did you mean by:
'load game' option at the top of the multiplayer lobby
- I have no load option in lobby, local game. I can load only from the main game screen.

Thanks for looking into this.
anuviel
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by anuviel »

Here is another set of save files. Two files in one folder this time.

Notice how Elves are green, dwarfs brown and humans white in the first scenario. I also named the elf "Noob".

Notice in the second scenario how Elves are red and the other two also changed colors but the interesting things is how the elf is still named Noob.

I guess something happens while game load the second scenario for the above things to get changed.
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MrEPIC
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by MrEPIC »

anuviel wrote:Hm, still seems to not be working for me.

I just started a new game and saved it right away. I then quit the game and after that I loaded the game. I finished the first scenario without buying any upgrades and when the second scenario started the names of the players were changed to thwp again and the colors reverted back to the original team colors.

Seems like an awesome campaign would really love to play all the way through with the leaders I choose and the side name Anuviel instead of thwp.

No idea what could be causing the issues I am encountering.
You are encountering these problems, I think, because you are not loading from the multiplayer lobby. This is crucial, if you load from the main screen the game apparently wants to reset the side info (I have no idea why).
What did you mean by:
'load game' option at the top of the multiplayer lobby
- I have no load option in lobby, local game. I can load only from the main game screen.
Select local game. On the Map to Play selection box, "Load Game..." is the very first option. I don't see how you can miss it...
3 player co-op campaign: The Haunted Woods (v1.6.19)
1v1 campaign: Tug of War (v0.4.0)
anuviel
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by anuviel »

Thanks. Just tried loading from the lobby (my bad about that) and it is still not working.

I am at a loss as to what I am doing wrong.
anuviel
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by anuviel »

Ok - I figured it out.

I loaded from the lobby, from save file 01.

I killed the last leader and proceeded to the next scenario.

- again I had the default leaders.

I exited the game and I loaded from the lobby again, from save file 01

I saved the game, leaving the original save name

- killed the last leader and proceeded onto the next scenario, I had all my new leaders and all seems to be in order.

Thanks for the help, greatly appreciated.
sneef
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by sneef »

I downloaded the newer version and then loaded from multiplayer and now the dwarven player retains his upgrades, so looks like that does it.

I also could not find the "Load Game" part in multiplayer until reading your email. My list of multiplayer maps starts at the bottom of the scroll list so it is initially not visible. When I do see it, it is still not obvious what it does in that its not clear why a command is embedded in a list of maps. For me, it would work better as a separate button (this is more a comment for lobby developers...)

About the campaign, one suggestion after playing it through earlier was to have more shops in the later levels. If I recall it started with most maps having the shops then went for some time with no shops. When I played through, it was not obvious that the shops would become rare so I had left upgrades empty. Also possible might be having only one or two of the three kinds of shops on a given map to gave some variation, working them into the storyline.

About leveling, I was always loading from single player so it as not clear if you intended for the heroes to level after 5000xp (as this was always resetting to 5000 after each scenario). One thought would be to work leveling in with the upgrades -- ie award one or two with leveling, depending on how many XP it takes to level. One nice thing about tying upgrades to advancement is that with the advancement XP set at the right level it will keep a supply of upgrades coming in over the course of the game which then leads to the strategic tradeoff of whether to buy units as opposed to upgrade. For the current game, the upgrades are all front-loaded and so this aspect of the game goes away in the later scenarios, but it is this aspect that makes it different from typical campaign (if played SP at least, but would also apply to MP). So possibly reduce the number of available upgrades at the start

About the leader hero -- that's an interesting idea, although it seems like it is all upside for one hero with no downsides, which might make it more interesting. For example, if leveling were tied to upgrades, perhaps a few more XP to level a leader, given the better upgrades. Also, perhaps restrict the leader-only upgrades to those focused more on leadership. Some examples: leadership (including for elf and dwarf), ability to recruit lvl0 units, to recruit lvl 1 units more cheaply, to recruit certain non-race units, perhaps some defense oriented skills. The point being that the leader specializes in more these kinds of skills and then move the more heavily combat oriented stuff to regular enhancements.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts, FWIW. Thanks for the interesting game.
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MrEPIC
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by MrEPIC »

anuviel: I'm glad that I was able to help.
sneef: I really like your ideas and I think that you have some excellent points, I'll respond to them individually:
sneef wrote: About the campaign, one suggestion after playing it through earlier was to have more shops in the later levels. If I recall it started with most maps having the shops then went for some time with no shops. When I played through, it was not obvious that the shops would become rare so I had left upgrades empty. Also possible might be having only one or two of the three kinds of shops on a given map to gave some variation, working them into the storyline.
I'll see what I can do for this, but I'm not so sure how I can explain shops in scenarios that don't currently have them. Right now, shops are all on maps which take place near/in a settlement.
sneef wrote: About leveling, I was always loading from single player so it as not clear if you intended for the heroes to level after 5000xp (as this was always resetting to 5000 after each scenario). One thought would be to work leveling in with the upgrades -- ie award one or two with leveling, depending on how many XP it takes to level. One nice thing about tying upgrades to advancement is that with the advancement XP set at the right level it will keep a supply of upgrades coming in over the course of the game which then leads to the strategic tradeoff of whether to buy units as opposed to upgrade. For the current game, the upgrades are all front-loaded and so this aspect of the game goes away in the later scenarios, but it is this aspect that makes it different from typical campaign (if played SP at least, but would also apply to MP). So possibly reduce the number of available upgrades at the start

About the leader hero -- that's an interesting idea, although it seems like it is all upside for one hero with no downsides, which might make it more interesting. For example, if leveling were tied to upgrades, perhaps a few more XP to level a leader, given the better upgrades. Also, perhaps restrict the leader-only upgrades to those focused more on leadership. Some examples: leadership (including for elf and dwarf), ability to recruit lvl0 units, to recruit lvl 1 units more cheaply, to recruit certain non-race units, perhaps some defense oriented skills. The point being that the leader specializes in more these kinds of skills and then move the more heavily combat oriented stuff to regular enhancements.
These ideas are very well thought out and interest me very much. I think that if I implement these it will make the campaign more fun and varied. Before I put code any of these ideas, let me summarize what I got out of your post and what I will do to put these into the game (also if anybody else has input that would be welcome as well):
1. Changing the starting leader modifications
What that would entail:
a) Leader hitpoints, attacks, and experience would be left at their default values
b) Abilities would still be removed

2. Change the leader-only shop to selling only abilities that are more focused on leadership
What that would entail:
a) Each leader can buy level 2 leadership to start off for 30 gold
b) Each upgrade beyond that would cost 30 gold and increase leadership level by 1.
c) Some of the current leader-only shop items will be moved over to the enhancements shop, and will only be available for purchase if the original leader visits the enhancements shop

3. Allow the leader-only shop to sell recruits
What that would entail:
a) To be allowed to recruit a new level 0 unit, the cost would be 30 gold
b) To be allowed to recruit a new level 1 unit, the cost would be 60 gold
Limits to the above: You would not be able to buy recruits that are enemies in the plot (orcs, undead, trolls) or units that would be obtained later (mages,
footpads, thieves, gryphons, woses, mermen)
EDIT:
4. More upgrades allowed for units who level up
What that would entail:
a) When a unit levels up, it is allowed to buy 3 more upgrades from the enhancements shop
sneef wrote: Anyway, these are just some thoughts, FWIW. Thanks for the interesting game.
And thank you for playing it and telling me your thoughts.
Everyone is welcome to post a response to what I have above. In fact, you are encouraged to do so, because I'd like to have a general consensus before making more changes to the campaign, and I want to do my best to ensure that as many people as possible are pleased.
Last edited by MrEPIC on March 27th, 2010, 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
3 player co-op campaign: The Haunted Woods (v1.6.19)
1v1 campaign: Tug of War (v0.4.0)
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by Yogibear »

Just for the record: Don't create saves during linger mode (that is when you finished a scenario and the "End turn" button changes to "End scenario", there is still a bug for those. It will be fixed with the next release, which is hopefully coming soon.
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anuviel
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.2 [Complete]

Post by anuviel »

Thanks.

@ sneef

Excellent ideas - I like them a lot

@ MrEpic

Code: Select all

I'll see what I can do for this, but I'm not so sure how I can explain shops in scenarios that don't currently have them. Right now, shops are all on maps which take place near/in a settlement.
You could introduce "traveling merchants" or hermits in latter scenarios that have a few items to sell. They might have available a limited number of upgrades instead of all or something along those lines.

I also have to note that my "Master at Arms" leader is too powerful in the third scenario - with all of the available upgrades that I put on him he alone decimated all of the undead without the use of a single potion or without being on a village for heals.

A little bit of balancing with the upgrades and power gain from them could be useful so that a single unit cannot be Terminator like and destroy everything in any of the scenarios.

For the enhancement shops - 3 new upgrades per level, I would reduce that to 1 or 2, instead of 3 - reason being that if you have a level 3 Royal Guard and buy, for example, all hit point upgrades for him plus holy amulet, he could end up with 70 hp's on top of his 65 plus arcane attack. If he then has 3 new upgrades per level he could potentially have +30 hp's per level and be overpowered. That would depend how many xp's he need between the levels after his 3rd level but to many xp would not be good and too little would not be good as well.

I would balance that like this: Either make a unit needs a considerable amount of xp after the 3rd level and then can get +3 upgrades or make it so that it needs less xp but gets only 1 upgrade per level...
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.3 [Complete]

Post by MrEPIC »

I've increased the price/decreased the power of the leader-only upgrades. Also, they now count towards your upgrade total and can only be bought by the original leader. Therefore, if your original leader dies, you will lose access to the exclusive upgrades. I would have put in the suggested leader-only shop which sells recruits, but I'm not sure what recruits are suitable. Does anyone have some ideas as to what recruits can be sold to the players?
3 player co-op campaign: The Haunted Woods (v1.6.19)
1v1 campaign: Tug of War (v0.4.0)
anuviel
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.3 [Complete]

Post by anuviel »

Nice changes.

I would put in units that are not available on any of the recruit lists and that will not be available for recruitment at any stage of the game and the ones that do not belong to the factions with which you play.

As I have not gotten all the way through the game - maybe a drake mercenary or a unit from a different era like Agrawathi mage or some units of the Celestial type (it could be construed something like - we heard the story of the undead raising in these parts and have come to offer our services - or something along those lines), ruffians would be useful as well.
revenant
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.1 [Complete]

Post by revenant »

MrEPIC wrote:Well to recruit in the second scenario you have to move to one of the nearby keeps. They are shown by the tent encampment tiles, and there are 2 to the north and 1 in the south. Once you get there you should be able to recruit like you would in a regular game. This has certainly never happened to me and I don't see why you wouldn't be able to recruit anyone if you move to a keep. If you still have trouble you can send me a save file and I'll take a look.
Never mind, I found out that it was the newest +svn version of Wesnoth. For some reason it won't allow you to recruit anything in any campaign or MP scenario.
Groznij
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Re: (1.6, 1.8) 3P Campaign: The Haunted Woods v1.6.7 [Complete]

Post by Groznij »

I have been playing a 2p game with a friend. We left the dwarves out of the game and only controlled one faction each. Awesome stuff, I like it alot, good job!

I know 2p games are largely untested and perhaps you want to leave it like that, but for what it's worth we eventually ran into a game-breaking bug. The problem is in the scenario "Escape to the caves" where you have to run your leaders into "the caves" while being besieged by 6 undead bitches; it says you have to "get all your leaders into the caves" and we did, only I suppose the third leader was required as well and he was not in our run at all.

I'll attach a save and hope you get a chance to look it over!

Either way, thanks for the ride so far. :mrgreen:

ps. 1st post, woo.
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