A New Land addon - Wesnoth 1.4

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Bob_The_Mighty
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Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

Rhuvaen! I got your macros to work by disabling the delayed build function,
but I ran into another problem... the $variable[$side] thing doesn't display a number until the variable has been researched at least once, i.e. my leader goes into his university and under dwarf negiotations it should say:
Study Progress: 0/4
whereas it just says:
Study Progress: /4

I have started making another scenario. In this, when you want to share knowledge with allies it should show you their current state of study progress - it works wihout the macros - but not with them.

Also some players have reported that storing petals/nuggets works for some sides but not others. Could all this be the same problem? Is this what you meant about it being a doubled-edged sword?

I will put it all on the server if you want to take a look.

As for a campaign, I have never made on before so i don't know where to start - but I'd like to help you if you wanted to take the lead...
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
Rhuvaen
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Post by Rhuvaen »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote:Rhuvaen! I got your macros to work by disabling the delayed build function
Did you try the fixed misc.cfg file I posted earlier? That should fix the delayed build without having to disable it. :o
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:but I ran into another problem... the $variable[$side] thing doesn't display a number until the variable has been researched at least once, i.e. my leader goes into his university
Yes, that's because I'm initialising array variables, but haven't changed the leader options to use them (I haven't written a macro for that yet). I'll simply initialise the variables that you currently use, which should fix that until the macro has been re-worked.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:I have started making another scenario. In this, when you want to share knowledge with allies it should show you their current state of study progress - it works wihout the macros - but not with them.
That's strange. One of the reasons I use macros is that it's easy to re-use them in a different context later (with minor adaptations, possibly). I guess this is also a problem of the leader options for allies not having been adapted to the array variables. When that leader macro is there it should work smoothly with the other macros...
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:Also some players have reported that storing petals/nuggets works for some sides but not others. Could all this be the same problem?
There was a bug in the blacksmith display... in all other areas it's displayed fine, I think.

Ok, I've wrapped these changes (blacksmith fix and elf/dwarf variable init) up and attached the files.

BTW, all the sharing knowledge options won't work until the leader macro is done. :(
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:As for a campaign, I have never made on before so i don't know where to start - but I'd like to help you if you wanted to take the lead...
It's just an idea... I could throw a few files together for a start, but wouldn't want to get involved in map-making, plot-design, etc. I'd help writing WML, and maybe help design a couple of scenarios. I still have some unfinished business (Unnatural Winter) that demands looking after. :wink:

EDIT: new villages/mines etc aren't owned by the player when he builds them - need to fix that... :(
EDIT2: temples don't seem to work :(
Attachments
A_New_Land_Rev2.zip
- delayed build
- blacksmith
- elf/dwarf variables
fixed
(9.05 KiB) Downloaded 355 times
Truper
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small bug

Post by Truper »

I ran into a bug when playing The Last Stand. I was able to free the Gryphon Rider from the webs, but it did not join my side - it just disappeared.

Bob, these A New Land scenarios are astonishingly clever, and great fun to play. Thank you!
Rhuvaen
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Post by Rhuvaen »

Okay, here's the newest update:
- delayed build now works perfectly (honest!)
- added lots of different sounds to the various actions 8)
- temples and healing works (temples are now also villages re income etc)
- built villages are owned by the builder
- rescuing the trapped monsters works
- brushed up the menues a bit

Okay - next thing on the list is definitely those leader actions. :wink:

Bob, I think this one is good enough for putting on the server, if you want...
Attachments
A_New_Land_3.zip
all the files from "A New Land"
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

Again, thanks, Rhuvaen!
I have incorporated all your changed in the latest version: 0.8.2

It is getting very confusing because I had made a new scenario and changed some of the others, so then I had to merge the changes that we had both made. But I've done that, and it is all up there. Perhaps you could re-download it from the server, next time you want to work on it? In particular I re-jigged the leader options for the last stand to create sub-menus for sharing knowledge and donating gold. I have used the same code in the scenario, end of days. So modifiy this, if you are going to macro-ise the leader options. (which i hope you are :lol: )

-Capturing villages when you built them was already working, though perhaps it didn't with delayed building.

-The gryphon issue above was working until i changed it, in a newer version than you were aware of I think.

- Specifying side details in the macros isn't very useful, since there are different teams and different gold for each scenario.

- Is there some way that level 2 mages could add 2 points of study, and level 3 give 3. This would make a nice addition I think: giving the player the choice of sending their new level 2 mage into battle, or forcing him to do some heavy swotting. This won't interfere with leader options if you specify norecruit=0.

- In my new scenario, end of days, I have introduced thieves (which steal gold from units when they attack), and young ogres which level all terrain. The only problem is they are both fairly ineffectual. Any ideas on how to make them a more dynamic aspect of the scenario?
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
Truper
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Post by Truper »

Version 0.8.2 appears to contain an error. I just downloaded and installed it, and when I restarted Wesnoth and tried to join the MP server, I got an error message that a New Land Contained errros and could not be loaded. Something about a missing closing tag.
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

Whoops. Thanks for reporting that Truper, it is fixed now. Just download it again...
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar »

I think what you've done here is pretty cool.

The biggest problem is the amount of shuffling peasants/researchers that is necessary to survive.

I don't know if WML makes this possible, but if you could simply leave a peasant on a mine, and he would mine until you told him to do something else, that would make things move much faster. Or a farmer left on a ready field would harvest automatically.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
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Konrad II
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Post by Konrad II »

Well yeah, I bet that's one of the projects to make it easier and smoother... Now it's up to those who work on the scenario to make it or not when they'd like to, there are probably more important subjects if coding this is hard enough.
Rhuvaen
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Post by Rhuvaen »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote:It is getting very confusing because I had made a new scenario and changed some of the others, so then I had to merge the changes that we had both made.
We need to take turns working on this, then. :wink: Thanks for incorporating my stuff :!:
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:In particular I re-jigged the leader options for the last stand to create sub-menus for sharing knowledge and donating gold. I have used the same code in the scenario, end of days. So modifiy this, if you are going to macro-ise the leader options. (which i hope you are :lol: )
Ok, maybe over the weekend...
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:- Specifying side details in the macros isn't very useful, since there are different teams and different gold for each scenario.
That's why they're passed to the macros as arguments?! Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying, but that's why the macros all work like this {GRASSLAND_ACTION "1,2,3,4"}. So you can quickly reconfigure for which side they're enabled. Same with the TRAPPED_CREATURE macro.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:- Is there some way that level 2 mages could add 2 points of study, and level 3 give 3. This would make a nice addition I think: giving the player the choice of sending their new level 2 mage into battle, or forcing him to do some heavy swotting. This won't interfere with leader options if you specify norecruit=0.
Sure. Will leftover research be lost? If I have a level 3 leader, and need 4 points of research, after one turn I will have 1 point remaining. In the second turn I reach my goal. Are the points now reset to 0, or to 2? :)
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:- In my new scenario, end of days, I have introduced thieves (which steal gold from units when they attack), and young ogres which level all terrain. The only problem is they are both fairly ineffectual. Any ideas on how to make them a more dynamic aspect of the scenario?
What do you mean, fairly ineffectual? I guess I have to play this to see... I'm not such a fan of having the thieves steal gold each time they hit, I think it would be more interesting if they stole a larger amount of gold from villages or keeps....
Eleazar wrote:The biggest problem is the amount of shuffling peasants/researchers that is necessary to survive.

I don't know if WML makes this possible, but if you could simply leave a peasant on a mine, and he would mine until you told him to do something else, that would make things move much faster. Or a farmer left on a ready field would harvest automatically.
Same thoughts, here. I think it could be done easily by checking a unit's resting at the beginning of a side's turn. Mages would then study the field closest to completion, I'd say (because there's no point in automating things if you still need a dialogue per unit).

I also want to experiment with the select event which doesn't carry over the network, but could be used to modify the handling of local dialogue. Basically I'd like to open a dialogue on double-click on a peasant unit where the player can disable and enable peasant actions. That way, you could perform all the actions, then switch to "disable actions" in this popup, and move around the other peasants that you want to just take positions, attack, or shuffle around...

Actually, I'd like to set attacks_left to zero (as well as moves) when a peasant or mage performs an action. Either that, or prevent actions altogether if an enemy is next to a unit (I would favour the latter, because it would also save some dialogue popping-up... if a unit would lose its attacks by performing an action, then often you wouldn't want to choose an action when moving next to an enemy). Either way, I think it makes little sense for actions to cost all moves, but still allow the guy who builds a university to attack at the same time. :?
Truper
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Post by Truper »

There is a new bug in The Last Stand. It always happened when player 4 moved a peasant onto a village which was not a mine (at least this was my impression - i didn't always follow that player's moves with precise attention). The other players (players 1 and 3 at least, player 2 wasn't talking much) would be asked what should be done in that village, and this would then cause oos errors. The only thing I am absolutely sure of was that the wrong players getting asked what should be done with a peasant and the oos errors happened only during player 4's turn.
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Konrad II
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Post by Konrad II »

Yep, that happened in a test game created by Bob too.. Probably a small glitch in the latest version, maybe about the village construction delay?
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

Okay, Rhuvaen let's take turns. You next... :)

I tested out your version of the last stand, and I must say I find the delayed building thing a bit annoying. I would be willing to back down on this if lots of players like it, but personally I want to see what I've built when I've built it. Also, it seemed to produce lots of OOS errors. As Truper mentions above some peasant menus were being shown to other players and even observers.

But... the added sound effects are superb! I like them a lot.

As for taking away peasants ability to fight i think this is not needed also. I believe there is a tactical dimension to being able to get the most out of your peasants by making it so they can move, farm and fight in the same turn. Plus it is funny that a peasant still has time to sow seeds whilst fighting a goblin - It's not realistic, but then nor is the fact that I can fight you from the top of a mountain. Simplicity should be aim I think.

Is there a way to make the captives not remove the fog. Share maps=no doesn't seem to do anything. I changed it so they were objects, which only became units when a player went into the cave - but someone mentioned a bug with this so I deferred to your nice 'special' macro. However, i still the old way of doing it if you want to incorporate that.

Regarding the details of sides: the scenarios have different teams and different starting gold. Don' the macros for sides make them all the same? Also, what does the bit below the [/mulitplayer] tag do?

I really like the idea of checking whether a unit has rested to initiate automatic farming/mining, but I'm not sure about mages. Players do not always want to go for the most reachable advance. Perhaps this would work: I have four mages all studying farming. I get the upgrade and want to change to mining, So I move one of them out and back in, choosing mining - making the the other 3 automaticaly switch to mining as well. As usual that turn I would get +4.

Level 2/3/4 mages should give +2/+3/+4 to their study progress, but not leaders. Leaders should only give +1 whatever their level. So, what happens when a higher level mage creates an excess? I dunno. The same issue was raised in a way by governor regarding sharing knowledge with allies. I guess the excess should just be added. This could be done by simply changing the code when the upgrade is reached from 'format=o' to 'add=-$mining_target1'

Sapient tells me that select events will work in MP games in the development version of Wesnoth. So for now it is speculation.

Wow, I never thought I'd have so much to say about this... Done.
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
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Sapient
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Post by Sapient »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote: Sapient tells me that select events will work in MP games in the development version of Wesnoth. So for now it is speculation.
Well, eventually. Whenever I get around to coding it. ;)
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
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governor
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Post by governor »

Feature requests:

I am a big fan of delayed build. The only problem I see with it at the moment is that the player gets no confirmation that something is being built on a tile. Maybe displaying a construction image on a tile (of course this requires art) or even setting a label to give feedback would be nice.

Changing the turn limit from 25 to 35 in a the last stand would make it so that deserving teams win the map.

Please consider linking the message boxes at the start with [option] tags. That way experienced players can skip them easily.
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