Suggestion for Paladin.

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
Zhukov
Art Contributor
Posts: 1685
Joined: November 9th, 2005, 5:48 am
Location: Australia

Suggestion for Paladin.

Post by Zhukov »

;) To begin with I want to apologise for any pieces of Noy that may suffer as a result of this idea. However in no way do I accept any liability.

Anyway, I was thinking about the whole Paladin vs Grand Knight (GK) thing. I really must agree with those who say that there is very little reason to advance to a Paladin. There is of course the obvious exception of players facing large numbers of undead. Having recently completed TRoW I found that GKs the invariably better choice. I only had one Paladin and I only really got him for 'collection' purposes. The one extra movement and healing don't make up for the HP and damage advantage of the GK. If you are using (and fighting) Level 3 units, a measly +4heal is hardly worth noticing.

Yuk...I hate unit analysis, so here's my idea: replace the Paladin's heal ability for illuminate. It keeps the character of the unit, it gives him a more general purpose beyond undead killing and it justifies the extra upkeep. I'm not sure about others but when using lawful units I can always find a use for illumination. This could make the GK the less obvious choice but leave the roles of both units prettymuch unchanged. The GK still acts as an agressive damage sink and the Paladin still whoops undead and can be mobile support.

So...whaddaya think?

Feels strange...going from discussing Gaza/Palastine/Isreal stuff to suggesting Wesnoth unit changes.

EDIT: Just spelling mistakes.
Last edited by Zhukov on July 14th, 2006, 9:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
Alks
Posts: 314
Joined: December 4th, 2005, 11:53 pm
Location: Poland

Post by Alks »

The best changes are the slightest changes. This one is. I like it.
User avatar
Kestenvarn
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1307
Joined: August 19th, 2005, 7:30 pm
Contact:

Post by Kestenvarn »

Yes, a lot better.
toms
Posts: 1717
Joined: November 6th, 2005, 2:15 pm

Post by toms »

Powerful. Undead have no chance any more then.

Other idea: Why not cures?

However, I agree that the paladin is not strong enough.
First read, then think. Read again, think again. And then post!
User avatar
Zhukov
Art Contributor
Posts: 1685
Joined: November 9th, 2005, 5:48 am
Location: Australia

Post by Zhukov »

toms wrote:Powerful. Undead have no chance any more then.
They never did. This hardly makes a difference.
toms wrote:Other idea: Why not cures?
That would change the Paladin's role quite a bit. I'm trying to avoid that.
toms wrote:However, I agree that the paladin is not strong enough.
Good.
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

This is déjà vu. They had this same discussion about 6 months ago (maybe?) with pretty much the same result. Veeeery interesting.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Dragon Master
Posts: 1012
Joined: February 11th, 2006, 1:04 am
Location: Somewhere

Post by Dragon Master »

Sounds useful and gives the Paladin more versatility. I like the idea, but then again my say has hardly any impact on the official dicision.
Flametrooper
Posts: 984
Joined: February 21st, 2006, 11:02 pm
Location: 0x466C616D65

Post by Flametrooper »

My vote = yes. Even though I personally like the Paladin, I think it could really do with help.
hey.
FleshPeeler
Posts: 162
Joined: June 19th, 2006, 8:37 pm
Location: A mystery wrapped in an enigma smothered with a three cheese blend.
Contact:

Post by FleshPeeler »

I never understood why you would give a charging unit "Heal." The point of charging is blazing forward ahead of the pack and dealing the first powerful blows and, hopefully, killing some guys on your opponent's front line. This means that a Paladin is hardly ever in a good position to make use of Heal, because there are rarely other units for him to heal except maybe other horsemen.

Illumination sounds FAR better. It puts a powerful punch against your enemy's front line. Not only do you get to deal a bit of damage, but now you have your lawful bonuses secured up front. Brilliant. Roll with it.
What if nobody ever asked "What if?"

FleshPeeler . . . Editting 5 times per every 1 post.
Dawgas
Posts: 32
Joined: May 2nd, 2006, 7:26 pm

Post by Dawgas »

I also like this idea. Give it one extra hp too as well, because otherwise my post feels too short and noncontribuity-like.
User avatar
Zhukov
Art Contributor
Posts: 1685
Joined: November 9th, 2005, 5:48 am
Location: Australia

Post by Zhukov »

Image Yay, positive responses.
Any chance of comment from one of the devs on this?
...DragonKing? Noy?
Jym
Posts: 85
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 4:15 pm
Location: Paris

Post by Jym »

Agreed too.

In HttT, I do not even bother to level up paladins any more (the only place where one would really be useful is the Valley, but holy water is at least as good...)

I've just played TRoW and levelled up something like 4 paladin and 3 GK because I read that paladins would be useful. Well, it certainly had helped in the last scenario but I could have done with only 2 paladins or just one.

Of course, in EI, paladins are more useful, but it's more like killing undead the whole time...

If paladins had illuminate, then the choice would be much less obvious and my ideal mounted front line would probably be something like a mix of one third to one half paladins and the rest GK (so that everybody in the line can be in the light).

Illuminate is always something missing in an early front line because MoL are just too slow to catch up. Often, the first clash happens at night but MOls only catch up with the line the next morning, thus being nothing more than white mages for 2 more turns...

Giving cure would be much too powerful. In that case, a line of paladins curing themselves after the charge would just be insane...

For MP, there should not really be a problem since these are level 3 units and won't occur that often. A change in cost might be necessarily for the eras allowing recruit of level 3 units.

Of course, on a similar topic, there is also the knight vs lancier subject... Coming up with a cool level 3 for lancier might just switch the obvious choice here too, but I guess that's a much more complicated problem...
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
User avatar
Dragonking
Inactive Developer
Posts: 591
Joined: November 6th, 2004, 10:45 am
Location: Poland

Post by Dragonking »

Looks really interesting and IMO makes far more sense than healng. In short: yes.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit
User avatar
Cuyo Quiz
Posts: 1777
Joined: May 21st, 2005, 12:02 am
Location: South America

Post by Cuyo Quiz »

Dragonking wrote:Looks really interesting and IMO makes far more sense than healng. In short: yes.
This makes me wanna dance like a guinea pig.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me :D
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Kel
Posts: 63
Joined: June 14th, 2006, 3:21 pm

Post by Kel »

Interesting idea. Just a note: I actually promoted my loyal Knight in TRoW to a Paladin, on the theory that I'd want the extra movement point for my free scout and that Haldric and Burin (sp?) made reasonable tanks.

Support, I think. I'm not sure if Illuminates on a front-line unit would just be too powerful, though. Maybe some of his stats would need tuning down (possibly a slight damage reduction on the charge?)
Post Reply