If Z were to hijack a game studio... again!

[Zhukov]

Long post, be warned. Just how long remains to be seen.
Okay, turned out to be very long. Be more warned.
Hmm... it's getting longer. Bring a coffee or save it for a rainy day.

Anyway, this is a semi-formed idea for a rpg-ish game I would very much like to see made. I'm more-or-less putting it up here for the hell of it (stuck at home for the day and don't feel like drawing).
It's also has elements of a rant on current rpg games.

Basics
The game would be primarily single player. Although a multiplayer variant would be altogether possible. True to tradition, the player controls a group of around five characters making their way in the world, often in a somewhat violent manner. (The group shall most certainly not be referred to as a 'party' and the individuals therein shall never be termed 'adventurers'. Just want to be clear on that.) Gameplay would be real time.

Control
(Much of this is inspired by a great old game called Ares which I doubt many people will have encountered. Just so you know.)
The view is third-person. The player controls only one character directly but can switch control freely. The rest of the group is AI controlled and can be given basic commands (go there, attack this, follow that etc). They can also be put in fairly standard behavior modes such as, say... aggressive - attack all enemies on site by any means available, guard - only attack enemies that are targeting a certain character or location, stealth - remain undetected AMAP and only fight if attacked, flee - run from any enemy and hide if possible. And so on, you get the idea. Each mode could perhaps have a less zealous option like 'attack all enemies but only those within a certain range' or 'run from all enemies of a certain strength or above'.
Since messing around with behavior modes in the middle of a skirmish would be a pain, to say the least, the game could be paused at any time. When paused, the player can view freely, switch control, set modes and the like. Or just answer the phone. (This is a feature that many real-time games could use, including that Ares I mentioned above.) However, no number of modes are going to completely eliminate frustrating AI-induced antics or give an AI the skill of a human. Thus, the player has the option of leaving the rest of the squad at some sort of safe point (campsite, inn, etc) and going it alone.

Setting
This is undoubtedly the area with the most room for improvement as I haven't given it all that much thought. Nothing terribly original, the usual geographically diverse fantasy world should suffice. It would of course be populated by a selection of sentient races between whom there is frequent tension.

Character Classes
They don't exist. This would be one of the more prominent deviations from the standard rpg. Classes tend to be a restriction which doesn't add anything. So, should the player wish to create a healer who can also clean the field with a bow then they can go right ahead. If they have a hankering for a soldiermageroguearcher that is also possible. However the more skills a character takes the worse they shall be at each of those skills. Thus the aforementioned soldiermageroguearcher would be useless. Specializing in a single discipline will result in being very good at that one thing, but also very inflexible. So a character capable of nothing but melee fighting will find themselves in strife should they encounter ranged enemies in an open area or inaccessible position.

Stamina
All characters would get stamina points (ST) based on their stats which measure how physically and mentally tired a character is. This would go alongside the standard health points (HP) and would probably replace the usual spell points (SP) for casters. If ST falls below 30% the character starts suffering penalties. If it gets below 10% they lose conciousness. The following actions reduce ST:
- Virtually any spell-casting (heavy cost).
- Being on the receiving end of beneficial effects (medium cost). The idea is that, for example, the effect of a healing potion is not free, rather it is accelerating the body's natural healing mechanisms. Repeated healing would result in rapid exhaustion. This would prevent ludicrous situations.
- Some physical combat moves (low cost)
- Some racial abilities (variable cost)
Simply traveling about would not cost ST. The would however be a 'forced march' option that would give 40% extra speed but would gradually drain stamina.

Character Creation and Improvement
Another major departure from the norm: there is no XP or leveling. Many games (especially those MMORPG monstrosities!) make players perform menial tasks or kill generic respawning monsters in order to gain levels and better equipment. Then they are capable of performing longer menial task or killing larger respawning monsters in order to gain levels and better equipment. Then they are capable... BORING!! YE GODS, HOW BORING CAN IT GET!? In my wannabe rpg, at the beginning of the game the player creates their characters by giving them names, selecting from a list of races (see below) and so forth. Each character gets a set amount of skill points (a nice round number like 50). These points can be allocated to a list of skills. Some races are naturally adept in certain skill areas, for example orcs in melee. So, for an orcish character skills relating to melee would cost less points, thus allowing them to 'purchase' more of these skills.
Then that's it. No more skill points to be found. The upside is that your characters start out relatively competent. So over the course of the game players don't go from utterly pathetic ("ahhh, it's a rat! Run for yer lives!") to ridiculously powerful ("hey look, I can kill Satan by farting twice in his direction"). Going up against ten bandits at the start of the game wouldn't be significantly harder then going against the same bandits at the end (barring any circumstantial advantages). So while stats play a major part, the game would be based around human skill.
There would be some room for character improvement through equipment and items and perhaps mounts. However this would be limited. Weapons and such would have drawbacks as well as advantages. Also, they would deal different sorts of damage making each suitable against a different sort of opponent (much like in wesnoth). The equipment a player uses would be more about choice and preference then constant upgrading.
Also, magical items would be more-or-less nonexistent. You're not going to be coming across any flaming swords or gaudy blinged-up armour eyesores.

Playable Races
(This turned out to be the longest section, 'cause I likes fantasy races.)
The following is a list of races that could be used for player characters. These would also make up the bulk of enemies and NPCs. For the most part they are standard fantasy fare. There are no Elves or Dwarves. None. At all. Races would in many way replace classes. The differences between the races would be rather radical.
To illustrate, in Wesnoth:
- human spearman has 36HP
- orc grunt has 38HP
- troll (fully grown) has 55HP
In my wannabe rpg (hmm, needs a name) it would be more like:
- spearman gets 36
- grunt gets 55
- troll gets 150
So, playable races thus far:
- Humans: the ubiquitous standard. Requires no real introduction. Okay at everything, but excellent at nothing. One idea would be to give them bonuses when fighting alongside other humans to illustrate cooperative nature. The more humans in the squad, the better the bonuses. Good for multi-skilled characters.
- Orcs: somewhat similar to Wesnoth orcs (brown skin, not green). Slightly taller on average then humans, heavily built and twice as strong. Savage and proud in nature. Not particularly stupid, but generally dismissive of intellectual pursuits. Usually live in semi-nomadic tribes. Formidable in melee, with sizable damage bonuses. Can use missile weapons at a pinch. Competent in unarmed combat. Heavy penalties in many circles of magic. Berserk ability. When berserk, they get significantly increased HP, strength and speed, but cannot perform any evasive moves and it drains stamina at rapid rate. Good for kick-in-the-door characters.
- Goblins: they are about three feet tall, light framed and agile. As in Wesnoth, they are a sort of breed of orc, born to orcish parents. Unlike in Wesnoth the distinction between the two is entirely clear, almost like an insect caste. In character Goblins are downtrodden, vindictive and cunning. In battle they rely on precision and backstabbing rather then brute strength. Decent with both melee and missile weaponry. They suffer the same magic penalties at orcs. Good for stealthy 'rogue' characters.
- Trolls: the ultimate meatshield. 8-10 feet tall and massively strong. Slow and lumbering. Tough wooden (not literally) skin that hardens and grows spiky protrusions as they get older. Devastating in open combat but useless in tasks that require any degree of subtlety (you won't see any trolls picking locks). Comparable in nature Tolkien's ents. Serene, contemplative and taciturn. Not particularly warlike and prefer to keep to themselves. Slow to anger but potentially fearsome. Somewhat indifferent to the outside world at large. Lots more HP and stamina then any other race. Cannot use many weapons, but perfectly able to make do with their limbs. One of their major features is that they are entirely impervious to magic, this is something of a two-edged sword. They cannot cast anything at all. Most spells, both hostile and beneficial, will not effect them. Neither can they use potions and the like. Trolls have a regenerative ability that basically allows them to swap stamina for HP.
- Malkin: vaguely humanoid furred creature (of my own invention). About 4-5 feet tall, but appear shorter due to naturally crouched posture. Light frame, lithe and nimble build. Clawed digits and short tail. Physically slightly weaker then a human. Largely solitary, living alone or in mated pairs. Belong to loosely organized clans. Somewhat feared by many other races due to various superstitious (but not entirely unfounded) beliefs. Having a malkin in the squad would cause negative reactions from some NPCs. They get sizable bonuses with missile weapons (equivalent to an orc in melee). Can fight unarmed in melee better then a human, although not as well as an orc and nowhere near as well as a troll. Many malkin are natural born casters, thus the race receives bonuses in many circles of magic. Suitable for archers, casters and stealth characters (or combinations thereof).
- Naga: reptilians with a more-or-less humanoid torso and... ah who am I kidding? Basically a direct rip of Wesnoth naga because I want a water-capable race (and 'cause they are better then mermen). Not particularly strong or agile but devilishly fast. Disciplined and auster in character. Claim to possess a strict sense of honor, but one that is not entirely in keeping with a human definition of the word. Considered somewhat sinister by other races although not overly feared. Do not excel at either melee or missile fighting but can be moulded to adequately perform either role. Bonuses in several magic circles.

Magic
Conceptually, magic would be based on the idea of worlds beyond our own that share the same position in space. Multiple planes of reality or whatnot. A person who can mentally breach the divide between planes can use themselves as a conduit to bring various otherworldly energies or beings into our own world. In theory, all people can learn to use magic. However it takes literally decades of single-minded meditation. On the other hand, some people have the questionable luck to be born with the ability. Many of them go mad at a young age, their minds and senses not equipped to handle input from a reality entirely different to what they know (and by 'mad' I don't mean "muahaha lets take over the world," I mean gibbering heap in the corner). Even those that retain their sanity often meet a sticky end. For example, coming into contact with otherworldly entities for the first time is rarely pleasant. All-in-all, natural born users of magic are not trusted by society in general. However, members of some non-human races are, to a certain extent, all 'natural born.' Characters of these races would make for significantly better casters. Other races are almost entirely unaffected to magic, while this bars them from its use it also has upsides.
Gameplay-wise, magic would be something used only occasionally. Very occasionally, perhaps to the tune of a single spell every six hours. Even characters focussed entirely on magic can not merrily throw lightning bolts around like confetti. There would perhaps be a selection of very minor magical cantrips that could be used more often to prevent casters from becoming near-useless one shot wonders. Magic would be separated into different circles which would build on each other. So giving a character skill in the 'healing circle' would give them access to the 'enchantment circle' and so on (just made those names up on the spot).
I'm not going to go into circles of magic now. This is already obscenely long. I'd probably be wasting my time anyway as it's doubtful anyone has got this far without nodding off.

Combat
In many rpgs combat (and lots more besides) is decided purely by numbers. The player picks a target, throws on all the "buffs" (hate that word) available, and attacks. Maybe put on auto-attack and go grab a snack or do their tax forms. If their numbers (ie, stats) are better then their opponents numbers then they win. If the opponent has better numbers, then the player loses. If this happens, they go off in search off enemies with lower numbers to defeat, so they can increase their own numbers then come back. Isn't the challenge of it all just THRILLING? Are you excited? I know I am! Positively retching with excitement!
In this still unnamed game of mine, combat, and gameplay in general, is real-time and third person. Much like... (trying to think of well known example)... the Tomb Raider games (bleh!). Or more accurately, the Jedi Knight games (much less bleh, but still bleh). Or way more accurately, Oni (not bleh at all). However I doubt anyone has played that, so never mind. While this system is vastly preferable (in my mind) to stat-based autocombat, these type games also have problems with the way they simulate fighting. Now, nobody expects a game to provide realistic imitation of the complexities and sensations of physical movement of the body. It can't be done and hasn't been (probably a good thing). However the major problem that I see is that games of this type require the player to use key combinations (of varying complexity) to pull off a move.
The game in my head simplifies this by just binding moves to a single key. Press the relevant key: the action happens. The same thing would apply to spells. This means it stops being about just pressing the right buttons in the right order, but about when and how the moves are used. The moves or spells available and their effectiveness would depend on what stats of the character performing them was given at the start of the game. The character's race and the weapon they are using will also come into play (an unarmed troll fights much different to an unarmed goblin). So, for a quick example, a character has a rank of 1 in edged weapons skill. They will be able to do some basic moves, but won't do all that much damage. If they have a rank of 2, their basic moves will do more damage and they can also use the moves 'whirl' and 'cleave'. A character who has a rank of 1 in defence skill can defend themselves from attack with a direct block. At rank 2 they can deflect, leaving their attacker momentarily open. At rank 3 they can dodge or roll, avoiding the blow entirely. At rank 4 they can riposte, getting an automatic counterattack. And so on and so forth.



Okay, I think my ideas have just ran out. Right then. Phew. If you've successfully bludgeoned your way through that imposing colossus of text then I congratulate you. If not, it doesn't really matter. It was kinda fun to write it all down. It's probably not ever gonna happen. But hey, a guy can dream.

Oh well. If you ever see a story in the news about some big Australian nutter storming a game studio in desperation then you'll be able to tell your friends that you know him. Heh.

[Zhukov]

Take 2. Reposted to account for the forum time-warp.
Luckily I had it all in a text file.

Just one comment: With the lack of classes, would you have a huge list of things you can improve, like HOMM5 if everything was an option at once? If so you could be all of those if you wanted, you would just "level"at a much slower rate, much like if you picked a dual class in D&D.

Not entirely sure what you mean. (I haven't actually played any of the HOMM games, except one for a couple hours at a friends house, number 3 I think. Haven't played D&D either, my sparse knowledge of it is based on a couple of webcomics I read.)
But basically, yes. Characters have access to the full skill list right from the start, although race restrictions would make many choices pointless for some characters. Also, characters do not "level" at any rate at all. The stats they end the game with are the same ones they began with.

Well, up untill the playable races section, I could have sworn you were describing the dungeon siege series of games...

*investigates*
Yeah, clear similarities. The control scheme in Dungeon Siege is more like the 'point and click' of an RTS though.
(:P Also, there are lots of flaming swords and horrid armour designs. Eww.)

Hmmm...
Actually there should be something fitting your description on the game market - so you don't have to storm any studio.

I live in hope. (Using a mac and not owning a console kinda restricts my choice though.)

PS. Turns out somebody actually knew of Ares (by AmbrosiaSW). The forum deleted his PM though.

[Drake Blademaster]

Well, I must say that you have fixed some of the things that I hate the most about RPGs. Congratulations. And, if you ever made that game, figuring out a way for it to work on Linux would be nice

[turin]

If this game was ever made it might actually entice me to play an RPG. (I have never actually done so, unless you count Nethack. I grew up on strategy games like Age of Empires, Myth and Heroes of Might and Magic.)

[Jetrel]

Also, magical items would be more-or-less nonexistent. You're not going to be coming across any flaming swords or gaudy blinged-up armour eyesores.

Magic has always been best served, in my mind, as "subtle but powerful". Magic is not some wand that shoots fireballs as easily as a flamethrower. Magic is not interchangeable with technology, despite what certain science fiction authors might infer. Consider, for example, the ring on Aragorn's finger. The ring of fire. The highest apex of pyrotechnics it inspired, or conjured, was the flash of sparks that came from metal clashing against, and perhaps cleaving through, metal. And yet it did much to rekindle the fire in the hearts of his people. And to hold his kingdom aloft when the kingdom's native strength would not have done so.

Magic can sometimes give very violent and tangible demonstrations of power, but these should be indications of the vast undercurrents of other things at work, underneath. If someone goes about like Alric (from the game Myth), ripping people to shreds with magic alone, then there's probably a lot more to him than that. A lot more.

Another thing about magic is that it works best when it augments the mundane; when it bends the rules, rather than breaking them. If someone had a talisman of fire, it would be much more tasteful if, rather than creating fire out of thin air, if it instead merely enhanced anything mundane that the person did with fire. If it made all their attempts at sparking tinder work; if it made even soggy, debatable wood burn; if it made the touch of winter's cold bite less deeply; if it made all their work of belching flammable liquid through a torch, and into an enemies' face, work with reliability, and with a strange sort of fervor. Almost as if by magic.



Penny-Arcade, in their typically sharp wit, gave the following example of how not to depict magic.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/19

[irrevenant]

Sounds a lot like a computer RPG of GURPS. Nice.

I totally agree that magic should be wondrous, and I also agree that it shouldn't be simply an alternate form of technology.

I don't know that that means that magic need be understated though.

To me it mostly means that magic should be an Art rather than a Science. ie. it shouldn't be reliable and it should vary from individual to individual - and mood to mood (and perhaps day to day, and place to place too). This means no stock-standard 'fireball' spells and certainly no 'Wand of Fireballs' with 5 charges left!

Unfortunately, this approach is poorly suited to a computer RPG as it still takes a human being to evaluate something so subjective as an art.

BTW, Jetryl, there's a magic system for GURPS much like what you're talking about here. It could probably even be adapted to a computer RPG with a little work...

[DDR]

This sounds like a good idea. I did something remotely like what you are describing a while back... You wander around the castle, (I am proud of that), collect goods, (even prouder of that) and run away from monsters (not so proud). You can defeat them, but... really, it's not happening very often. I looked at my story - you get trapped inside a castle while hiking. At most, you probably have a pocket knife on you. You do get a sword, but you, not having previous experience at these things, are not very good with it. With it, you have a half-way decent chance of killing the snake in the garden. You don't level up. A dragon is, what perhaps 4 or 5 meters tall? you're perhaps 1 and a bit? Even with armor and amazing stamina, all it has to do is lay down on top of you. I have never understood that.

So, good luck with the game. I like your magic theory. It just seems "right". Please, please, make inventive alien races. (The standard alien seems to be something that could be made out of a human and stage makeup.)

What type of graphics are you thinking of using? I made my game text-based. You are a "*", some monsters are "s", "S" "*", "|", etc.

I have some nice floor plans I can give you. They are roughly based upon the old terrain letter system of wesnoth. I'd like to help, but unless you are making this in True Basic (gold edition), I am powerless to help.

Also, when I refer to you, I mean "you, and\or whoever you can con into making this game" I would like to see it made, though...

[nightcrawler]

You're not going to be coming across any flaming swords or gaudy blinged-up armour eyesores.

Hey! I resent this (don't ask why). Otherwise I love the "real-person" slant on character development. I hold similar views. The guy who writes the Avernum and Exile games also announced that his next game will be planned along those lines... it would be nice to see games like this. I think the stealth combat or survival simulation genre come the closest to this philosophy, but not fully.