No mirror option

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Post Reply
Posts: 20
Joined: August 11th, 2008, 10:49 am

No mirror option

Post by sidzej »

Personally I hate mirrors - they are killing fantasy element of the game in my opinion. It's like killing your brothers and sisters. Some people of course like them, but i think most people (like me) also hate them.

To avoid geting a mirror game when selecting random faction i would recomend to do a "no mirror" checkbox option in game lobby. It could work in the way that when someone took random faction, he/she can't get a faction that other players already has in this game - of course in Default era for 7 or more players it would be imposible, so it would olny work for max 6 players maps.

User avatar
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: No mirror option

Post by thespaceinvader »

I don't see why they should kill the fantasy element of the game at all... Civil wars happen. Heck, it's in the race background of the Orcs that they in-fight between tribes like crazy. |
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm

Re: No mirror option

Post by Turuk »

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure the elves had their own split, and we all know humans love to fight each other. Dwarves could easily get slighted over who stepped on the other's beard.

As to evil races, since when do they need an excuse to fight each other? It's in their nature.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

Founding Developer
Posts: 7071
Joined: August 17th, 2003, 5:07 am
Location: Seattle

Re: No mirror option

Post by Dave »

I think this is a good idea, though I think it should only generally work for games of <= 4 sides.
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming

User avatar
WML Wizard
Posts: 9740
Joined: September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Location: Finland

Re: No mirror option

Post by zookeeper »

Funnily enough, this could actually be done in WML as a custom era, you could make a prestart event that checks for random-faction collisions and sets new factions for the sides as needed. :hmm:

Posts: 240
Joined: December 6th, 2006, 10:39 pm
Location: Morecambe, UK

Re: No mirror option

Post by bert1 »

I think it's a fantastic idea. I only wish I had thought of it first.
Good is simply that which is willed. - Eugene Halliday

Posts: 20
Joined: August 11th, 2008, 10:49 am

Re: No mirror option

Post by sidzej »

Well... almost all can be done in WML, so why to keep releasing new developers and stable versions when unit balancing, map changes, new graphics, changing campaigns can be made in custom eras?

User avatar
Posts: 416
Joined: July 24th, 2007, 5:12 pm
Location: North Central Texas

Re: No mirror option

Post by Zachron »

I think it is a good idea to prevent random factions from being the same, but having faction choices locked out because someone else has already chose it is just silly. Multiplayer games aren't particularly designed to make sense in the metaplot anyway.

That being said It's a good option, I just won't play a game that uses it. Irdya's history is written in the blood of civil wars. We could however reconfigure the random generator in a manner that ensures as many factions as possible are in play(Fill by randomly choosing a faction not in play, then randomly choosing a faction with only one in play for players past the 6th), but I think the feature should only take what is randomly chosen into account.
Project Battlescar: An rpg engine of my own design.

Posts: 1034
Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
Location: NJ, USA.

Re: No mirror option

Post by Jozrael »

This isn't to lock out a faction, but to prevent them from being chosen randomly.

Posts: 267
Joined: July 18th, 2006, 11:52 am

Re: No mirror option

Post by PingPangQui »

Dave wrote:I think this is a good idea, though I think it should only generally work for games of <= 4 sides.
An alternative would be to have a "Set maximum faction diversity" option or a "Set faction diversity" option activating "a faction diversity slider". The slider could work like this:

If set lowest: Everyone gets the same faction.
If set highest: Maximum diversity will be achieved.

The diversity could be calculated according to the "alternative Simpson Index" (pseudocode):

Code: Select all

sum <- 0
from i=1 to number_of_factions
  sum <- sum + (relative_frequency_of_faction[i])^2
diversity <- 1 / sum
Thus diversity would lie between 1 and the number of faction. However, this would only be the case if the number of players is equal or a factor of the number of factions. Thus the maxium diversity lies usually somewhat below the number of factions. For 1 to 5 players (default era) the maximum diversity is simply the number of players. For more players this is somewhat more complicated to calculate. Maybe someone else has a clue regarding a simple equation to calculate maximum diversity with number of players/sides and number of factions as input.

EDIT: Ok I think it all comes down to the following four equations.

Code: Select all

D = 1 / ( z*(x/P)^2 + (F-z)*(y/P)^2 )
y = floor(P/F)
z = P - y*F
x = y + 1
Whereas: P - number of players/sides, F - number of factions, D - maximum diversity. Following basic math rules I finnally got the following.

Code: Select all

y = floor(P/F)
D = P^2 / ((-F*y + 2*P - F)*y + P)
The Clan Antagonist.

"Larry the Cow was a bit frustrated at the current state of Linux distributions (...) until he tried Gentoo Linux" - Free Software for free people.

Post Reply