The Steppe Orcs

[zookeeper]

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to use a lot of offense/defense only attacks, like Savage does. A simple berserker would probably work just as well.

A lot? Well...seeing as nobody has used this before (AFAIK) then I suppose the Savage and the Barrier line is a lot. However I think the attacks are justified in both instances.

I perhaps meant something more along the lines of using only mild variations of existing specials, like only-on-offence berserk. A familiar ability or a completely new one is better (unless one clutters up the whole faction with unique abilities) than a familiar-but-slightly-modified ability.

Knockback: when hit with this attack, the unit is pushed back one hex provided there isn't another unit behind it.

This could go well for the Juggernaut. It would make it more distinct from the spearhead. But I can see it as being somewhat controversial or even overpowered. Wouldn't it be a bit too easy to dislodge opponents from villages or other highdefence terrain? Also, I'm curious, how does retaliation work with knockback - does the 'knock' effect only take place at the end of combat? If the first swing hits, does either unit continue fighting?
This sounds promising, but also a little...unstable.

When hit with knockback, the unit is immediately thrown back, and the combat ceases. Just like with stones, for example. I'm also thinking that villages might need to be a special case, so you couldn't knock units out of villages (just like plague doesn't work on units in villages), which would really be a pain.

[Nyr Oagorith]

I was wondering if maybe the steppe orcs would be more dependent on cavalry like the mongols, considering they live on a steppe?

[Zhukov]

Nope, no cavalry because:

a) Gameplay reason: I want my faction to be based on slower-moving infantry.

b) Realism reason: I can't imagine horses wanting to carry an Orc.

[zookeeper]

Just an unrefined idea that occurred to me: how about toning down the damage of either the Drover or Reject line a bit and give it the teleport ability? I imagine teleport would conceptually fit those units, too. I initially though about the Reject line getting this, but it could be interesting to have a unit dealing strong cold, magical melee damage (Reject) and have "the usual mage unit" (Drover) be a bit less powerful but have the very rare teleport ability.

Anyway, it's just an unrefined idea I deemed worth of writing it up here.

[jonadab]

Realism reason: I can't imagine horses wanting to carry an Orc.

You can make horses do things they don't want to do, but the more operative issue is that orcs generally would rather eat horses than ride them. Additionally, IIRC, the steppes where these orcs live are a bit further north than Mongolia, more like tundra than hot desert. Horses are theoretically possible, but they would seem out of place.

Plus as you note the extra movement would probably unbalance the faction.

Regarding knockback, if that is possible then presumably a slightly weaker version ("rebuff" perhaps) should also be possible, wherein when the enemy is hit combat ceases, but nobody moves. That would mostly be useful for defense and entirely dodges the village issue, but it would IMO be tactically interesting, especially for the Barrier line, since it would effectively mean that certain whole classes of units would be unable to budge them, but high-dammage low-rep attacks could still be used against them.

Or for that matter you could just use knockback on the barrier line. That would still be tactically interesting, albeit different. Among other things it would allow the enemy to attack with a larger number of units per turn, since if the first ones get knocked back others could slip in front of them (but then when _they_ get knocked back the tile behind them would be occupied, so then the _second_ unit would be left occupying the tile with combat stopped). And the issue of dislodging enemies from villages becames a non-issue if the attack can only be used defensively anyhow. (Sure, an enemy that steps into a village to attack you could get knocked out, but that's under his control, so you can't just use it to force him out of villages at will.)

[Zhukov]

I'm still working on these guys...seriously. Mostly with the art though.
On the stat side, I made some slight changes to resistances and movetypes. They have been edited into the last big stat post.
Basically tweaked some defense values. Also changed the resistances to 20% against cold and -20% weakness to fire. I thought the old 30%/-30% was a bit too extreme.

[Flametrooper]

What do you still have to do/need help with?

[Zhukov]

What do you still have to do/need help with?

My 'schedule' is something like this:

1. Draw a base image (aka standing image) for every unit. They are coming along, but slowly. So far the art quality is half-decent, but nowhere near in-game standard .
2. Go over stats with a fine tooth comb. Re-balance unit stats, clean up descriptions, try and think up some better names.
3. Write up the .cfg files and make a modified Default Era with my faction added.
4. Once that is done I can start playtesting. This will probably result in a whole lot more stat changes.
5. Next, the animations. This will take ages.

So I'm afraid there isn't much anyone else can do to help at the moment. That said, I am always happy to recieve comment on my art efforts* for this faction.

If art criticism isn't your bailiwick, I am after some better names for a few units. WarBringer, BattleChief and IceFist Rogue all sound really silly. IceWind Reject isn't so great either.


*That link goes to the 9th page of my art thread, that's where the image for the Spearman unit is posted. That is the image which currently needs criticism.

[wisdomless2]

Wow... This is looking good...

[Zhukov]

Thanks.

[Lesser Python]

So we don't have enough placeholders to test the stats, the stats are in stat blocks rather than actual WML unit files, and such? Also, is there a campaign for these guys? Perhaps an era that they're supposed to be part of?

Saracens development seems stalled, Celts are just about down to the artwork, and I've yet to see any work on Stickmen. So I'm looking for something I can do well while mangling the artwork on those factions.

Which, now that I think of it, I need to get back to...

[turin]

Zhukov: I've been meaning to ask, where are these guys supposed to be located? In the North of the Great Continent, right? So what other factions would be in an era with these guys? It seems like they're kinda by themselves up there...

[Zhukov]

Zhukov: I've been meaning to ask, where are these guys supposed to be located? In the North of the Great Continent, right? So what other factions would be in an era with these guys? It seems like they're kinda by themselves up there...

Clicky. Link leads to my opening post for this thread. The answer to your first question resides within.

Who would they share an era with? I wouldn't have a clue. At the moment this isn't a problem, the faction is so far from complete that I'm not worrying about it.

So we don't have enough placeholders to test the stats, the stats are in stat blocks rather than actual WML unit files, and such? Also, is there a campaign for these guys?

Hey, I try. Your post is talking about a whole crapload of work. And I am basically doing it all myself, in what little spare time I can scrape out.
But to answer your questions:
-> I am currently working on the art (as I have said many times).
-> I don't need to do WML until I have basic art.
-> A campaign is planned. However I obviously need to finish the faction first, so I don't see why you are asking about campaigns at this stage.

[Skizzaltix]

I have to say, this is a great faction idea! I always wondered why there just wasn't anything THERE north of the River Glug...

Ignore me if I'm bringing up things that were already brought up, I didn't read the whole thing...

The Piercer line. Sometimes a flail would have a 'loose end' at the opposite end from the business end, which could be used to retaliate to an attack, forcing the enemy to block, and the only way to effectively block it would be with a shield, becuase it would just swing around a sword/spear, making the blow worse, if anything.

As from a name.. How about:

Garkhrak(the 'kh' is sort of a hard 'ch' noise... Almost like a cough)
Kurga
Khrakh(No, it's not a drug)
Orgrukh

...And my creativity has run out for now.

Edit: oh yeah. you should give the Barrier line Steadfast, if you haven't already.

[Zhukov]

The Piercer line. Sometimes a flail would have a 'loose end' at the opposite end from the business end, which could be used to retaliate to an attack, forcing the enemy to block, and the only way to effectively block it would be with a shield, becuase it would just swing around a sword/spear, making the blow worse, if anything.

I'm not entirely clear on what you mean here. However, from what I know, in real life a shield would not be suitable for blocking a flail. Because the flail has a flexible chain rather then a rigid blade/handle/haft it would simply whip around the edge of the shield or over the top.

...name suggestions.

I think I am going to stick with "Steppe Orcs." It isn't what I originally intended, but it has sorta stuck and nothing better has come up. Not brilliant, but sufficiant.

Edit: oh yeah. you should give the Barrier line Steadfast, if you haven't already.

Steadfast would actually have absolutely no effect on the Barrier line. Carefully read the description of Steadfast and look at the Barrier line's stats.