impassable Mountains: reviewed

-> What i might be working on · Post by **Eleazar** » December 14th, 2006, 1:00 am

I've gathered that some people really don't like the impassable mountains. And infact there's something about they that i don't like, but i can't put my finger on it. It's quite likely that my reasons are different from other people's reasons, but let's see:

I'd like to hear why they are disliked. There's no guarantee that i can or will change them in any particualr way, but i might...

Post by **turin** » December 14th, 2006, 1:03 am

I voted for "no, I don't like them, they're ugly".

I don't think just putting clouds over the normal mountains is going to cut it. They need to actually look like larger, less traversable mountains. Bigger, darker, snowcapped, I dunno...

Fiach Dubh · Post by **Fiach Dubh** » December 14th, 2006, 1:13 am

I voted the same, because it was the closest to what I think.

They're not actually 'ugly', as such. They're quite nice actually, but they don't quite fit in with the look of the other terrains. Turin's right that clouds don't make them look impassable - they just make them look cloudy. I have to agree with him - lose the clouds, and focus on the mountains themselves.

Post by **grzywacz** » December 14th, 2006, 1:49 am

Well, I think "they're ok". Neither ugly, nor exceptionally beautiful, but carefully placed they really enrich the landscape. If they're to be improved - sure, but I'd rather not have them removed.

-> What i might be working on · Post by **Eleazar** » December 14th, 2006, 2:13 am

removal is not being considered, just possibly alteration.

Post by **Jetrel** » December 14th, 2006, 3:02 am

Personally, I think the use of the mist was one of the most clever ideas I've seen. Yes, it would be nice to have craggier, nastier mountains under that mist, but the mist was still a wonderful idea.

The one thing I don't like is that the "impassible mountains" don't seem to do multihex, either with themselves, or with regular mountains. I understand that this might not be possible in WML.

Post by **Sangel** » December 14th, 2006, 3:20 am

Err... I'd like to express an opinion, but I'm uncertain of which thread these mountains have been showcased in. Or are they present in 1.1.13?

Website · Post by **Sapient** » December 14th, 2006, 3:24 am

Ok, first of all this poll is asking the wrong questions... As a map maker I like impassible mountains for certain uses. For these uses they are great. So I voted "OK."

However, they are not the best for every situation that calls for an impassible terrain. Vast tracts of mountains just don't logically belong everywhere! And if you have too many of them they are a visual distraction from the map's main battleground area. For this reason, I consider them an inferior choice as an edging material for irregularly shaped maps.

Void looks great on edges but in the center of the map it is just bizarre.

Cave wall looks pretty bad for anything except surrounding caves. However, for that specific job it is the clear and only choice.

Graphically, the major glitch I see is that the units north of an impassible mountain are made to float on the cloud. This looks kind of funny.

Post by **mog** » December 14th, 2006, 3:51 am

I like them. Especially if you mix them with some normal mountains. And if I made maps I would put as many impassable mountains in it as possible (so I voted 1).

And I don't understand Jetryl's complaint, as the multihex works (and has worked all the time) fine for me:

Post by **Sangel** » December 14th, 2006, 4:28 am

Thanks mog, that screenshot is exactly what I need to comment on these.

In their current state, I believe that the impassible mountains graphics are insufficient. I would very much like to see them steeper, craggier, and if possible piercing the mists. The clouds should remain, though, as they're an excellent "distinguishing feature" for impassible mountains - a mountain which has clouds is impassible, a mountain which doesn't, isn't.

I understand, however, that creating new mountains is a serious project for a talented artist only, so I'm don't want to be pushy in my views.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » December 14th, 2006, 4:55 am

They are okay. Better than using cave wall above ground, but I would say there is room for improvement graphically. I would have to second what Sangel said that it would be nice to have the mountain tops stick up above the clouds.

Post by **mog** » December 14th, 2006, 5:25 am

Of course, if someone was to make steeper/more jagged mountains that look at least as good as the current ones (and have an as nice transition to the normal mountains as the current ones do), we could replace them.

(Though I would ask this person to make snow mountains first)

Post by **Dave** » December 14th, 2006, 5:38 am

Sangel wrote:I would very much like to see them steeper, craggier, and if possible piercing the mists.

Isn't the problem perhaps that freim has done an excellent job making the current mountains look very steep and impressive, that it's difficult to imagine someone making mountains even more steep and impressive?

I would say the mountains freim has given us look fairly impassable for military units in the heat of battle. Perhaps they should remain as impassable mountains, and we should try to make somewhat 'toned-down' versions that are passable?

David

Post by **Sangel** » December 14th, 2006, 5:59 am

Dave wrote:I would say the mountains freim has given us look fairly impassable for military units in the heat of battle. Perhaps they should remain as impassable mountains, and we should try to make somewhat 'toned-down' versions that are passable?

David

Agreed, this is certainly a viable option. I can definitely see those multi-hex mountains piercing the clouds in various places, which I believe would be excellent. On the other hand, obscuring such beautiful terrain with mists...

Gah. My opinion is expressed - I have every confidence that our excellent terrain artists will come up with something that looks amazing.

Post by **Jetrel** » December 14th, 2006, 7:17 am

Dave wrote:
Sangel wrote:I would very much like to see them steeper, craggier, and if possible piercing the mists.
Isn't the problem perhaps that freim has done an excellent job making the current mountains look very steep and impressive, that it's difficult to imagine someone making mountains even more steep and impressive?

I would say the mountains freim has given us look fairly impassable for military units in the heat of battle. Perhaps they should remain as impassable mountains, and we should try to make somewhat 'toned-down' versions that are passable?

It's an interesting idea, but I am extremely opposed to doing this. Frankly, it's very easy for me to picture more steep mountains; the problem is the immense effort needed to draw them (an effort which is no easier for the "mini-mountains" you suggested).

Making steeper mountains is conceptually simple - Our current mountains have no more than a roughly 30Ã‚Â° incline. Just increase that by 15-20Ã‚Â°, and add more crags. To prevent overlap, this increase in angle only needs to happen towards the peak. Mountains like this in the real world are typically called "horns", and are quite fitting of the "impassible" description.

mog wrote:And I don't understand Jetryl's complaint, as the multihex works (and has worked all the time) fine for me: (image)

Weird. I must have seen that in an older Dev version, or just laid out tiles wrong - I'm glad to know that problem/bug is not real.

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impassable Mountains: reviewed

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impassable Mountains: reviewed