WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply
vghetto
Posts: 441
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

weewah wrote: March 18th, 2021, 2:12 am Can Diplomacy be reworked so that multiple diplo missions can be active at the same time? I keep on forgetting to switch between missions, so I often end up killing wolves/woses or building trees/mountains for no reason since the wrong quest was selected X_x.
vorwi wrote: March 18th, 2021, 4:39 pm Would be cool if all missions could be tracked at once. Mission feature is cool but managing it is tiring. If its posible to make it more automatic then it would be much better IMO.
The current system doesn't allow for that. It would need a major rewrite to do so. I'm very doubtful that it will ever happen.
vorwi wrote: March 18th, 2021, 4:39 pm You could always try some modifications to play with.
I keep forgetting to ask you, are you having any problems with rune casting of the custom units, or was that fixed?
weewah wrote: March 18th, 2021, 2:12 am You can if you let loyal units get training xp!
Hmm, I think i'll allow it, but I'll introduce a cost system for training. That would be a good gold sink as well.
Maybe, gold paid for training = unit level * training level
+ 5 gold penalty for loyal training
+10 gold penalty for canrecruit training.
If you can't pay, the training won't take place. gold won't go into negative.

One other thing, I don't know if I mentioned this before, the canrecruit units can access the library just like the leader.

Edit: I'll add a cost to eating mushroom, too.
Eating mushrooms cost 10 gold.
Training is disabled in the winter.
weewah
Posts: 87
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

vghetto wrote: March 18th, 2021, 10:06 pm

Hmm, I think i'll allow it, but I'll introduce a cost system for training. That would be a good gold sink as well.
Maybe, gold paid for training = unit level * training level
+ 5 gold penalty for loyal training
+10 gold penalty for canrecruit training.
If you can't pay, the training won't take place. gold won't go into negative.
Too expensive, not worth it.

Also it would be really annoying since I now cannot place any units on any recruiting building without suffering unwanted gold losses. Especially the library, I like to place my leader there to get diplo missions, I don't want to get charged 16 gold per turn for that.

This can only work if there is some way to turn on and off trainings, which I would then use to turn off trainings forever until I am filthy rich.
vghetto wrote: March 18th, 2021, 10:06 pm
Edit: I'll add a cost to eating mushroom, too.
Eating mushrooms cost 10 gold.
Training is disabled in the winter.
RIP mushrooms. And *rips apart book of fungi*.
If it costs 10 gold to EAT a mushroom, the only times eating a mushroom makes sense is when an expensive unit would die otherwise, or for caravan movements.

If you do this, please add a message saying "eating this mushroom would cost 10 gold. Are you sure?" with yes/no options every time I try to eat a mushroom, because I now eat mushrooms on reflex but absolutely do not want to ever do it except in the above cases.

Edit:

If having too many farms is the problem, why not just set a limit to the number of farms you can build and then make players pay to raise the limit. You can start out as a Baronet who is only allowed to build 10 farms + the yields on those farms, then have players pay 1000 gold AND kill certain number of the empire's enemies to upgrade their rank to Baron who is allowed 20 farms. The Baron can then pay 5000 gold and kill more enemies to become a Viscount with a limit of 30 farms, and so on.
Last edited by weewah on March 20th, 2021, 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
vghetto
Posts: 441
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

Fine, training can be enabled/disabled.
"Creating a healing potion out of mushrooms" has a yes/no question. cost of alchemy :P
I'm keeping the book of fungi. No reason to throw that out.
owned villages of any type is limited to 40 and increased by 40 each time 2000 gold is paid.

Edit: oh, for the training, loyal are units that are loyal and can't recruit. +5
units that can recruit pay +10, not +15
weewah
Posts: 87
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

Actually I take back the stuff I said about mushrooms and trainings, I was looking at this all wrong.

At some point I just got used to getting some horsemen and destroying entire armies with them using mushrooms, but that really shouldn't be how the game is played in the first place. And when I saw the costs I kept thinking about how they would be completely and utterly useless in early game due to their high cost, when really I should have been thinking about them as a reward for later in the game, to keep things interesting after year two.

I think you can actually tie them in to the fief level or noble rank upgrade system for farms. Each rank upgrade could add a bunch of stuff in addition to allowing 40 more villages.

First rank upgrade unlocks trainings at the recruiting buildings.
Second rank upgrade unlocks alchemist for mushrooms and mushroom yields.
Then you can add even more awesome stuff for the even higher rank upgrades.

Maybe the third rank could allow each unit to buy defence upgrades for 100 gold at each recruiting building?
Blacksmith gives a unit +10% defence rating on hills and mountains.
Well gives a unit +10% defence rating on water and sand.
Stable gives a unit +10% defence rating on flat and unwalkable.
Armorer gives a unit +10% defence rating on castles and caves.
Bowyer gives a unit +10% defence rating on forests and swamps.
Library gives a unit +10% defence rating on villages and frozen.
Each unit can have a total of 2 defence upgrades so that they don't become completely invulnerable.

Then for the fourth rank you can have resistance upgrades.
Blacksmith gives a unit +20% pierce resistance.
Well gives a unit +20% cold resistance.
Armorer gives a unit +20% blade resistance.
Stable gives a unit +20% impact resistance.
Library gives a unit +20% fire resistance.
Bowyer gives a unit +20% arcane resistance.
Each unit can have a total of 2 resistance upgrades so that they don't become completely invulnerable.


You could also have +1 automatic kingdom ally group for each rank upgrade, since a higher ranked fief would be more valuable for the kingdom to protect.

Edit: Also I fought a calamity, it was weak. Undead ghost swarms in winter are far far more scary than calamities. Maybe they should be made harder, or have multiple calamities at the same time. Like starting with 2 simultaneous calamities in year 2, and adding one to the number of simultaneous calamities each year.
vorwi
Posts: 32
Joined: July 3rd, 2018, 10:11 am

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vorwi »

vghetto wrote: March 18th, 2021, 10:06 pm
vorwi wrote: March 18th, 2021, 4:39 pm You could always try some modifications to play with.
I keep forgetting to ask you, are you having any problems with rune casting of the custom units, or was that fixed?
It's fixed. Thanks.
However im not sure in which patch since i dont really have time to play now. :hmm:
User avatar
Lord-Knightmare
Discord Moderator
Posts: 1482
Joined: May 24th, 2010, 5:26 pm
Location: Somewhere in the depths of Irdya, gathering my army to eventually destroy the known world.
Contact:

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Hello, I have just started playing this and I was met with this error at start.

Code: Select all

20210319 20:09:38 error scripting/lua: lua/core/map.lua:218: set_terrain: invalid mode
stack traceback:
	[C]: in function '.error'
	lua/core/map.lua:218: in function <lua/core/map.lua:207>
	(...tail calls...)
	~add-ons/Wild_Frontiers/lua/utils.lua:117: in upvalue 'place_road'
	~add-ons/Wild_Frontiers/lua/utils.lua:187: in local 'cmd'
	lua/wml-utils.lua:144: in field 'handle_event_commands'
	lua/wml-flow.lua:19: in local 'cmd'
	lua/wml-utils.lua:144: in field 'handle_event_commands'
	lua/wml-flow.lua:198: in local 'cmd'
	lua/wml-utils.lua:144: in field 'handle_event_commands'
	lua/wml-flow.lua:5: in function <lua/wml-flow.lua:4>
vghetto
Posts: 441
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: March 19th, 2021, 2:15 pm Hello, I have just started playing this and I was met with this error at start.

Code: Select all

20210319 20:09:38 error scripting/lua: lua/core/map.lua:218: set_terrain: invalid mode
stack traceback:
	[C]: in function '.error'
	lua/core/map.lua:218: in function <lua/core/map.lua:207>
	(...tail calls...)
	~add-ons/Wild_Frontiers/lua/utils.lua:117: in upvalue 'place_road'
	~add-ons/Wild_Frontiers/lua/utils.lua:187: in local 'cmd'
	lua/wml-utils.lua:144: in field 'handle_event_commands'
	lua/wml-flow.lua:19: in local 'cmd'
	lua/wml-utils.lua:144: in field 'handle_event_commands'
	lua/wml-flow.lua:198: in local 'cmd'
	lua/wml-utils.lua:144: in field 'handle_event_commands'
	lua/wml-flow.lua:5: in function <lua/wml-flow.lua:4>
Thanks for the report, which version of wesnoth did you try it on? Do have other mods installed?
lua/core/map.lua <- This change is in master, and not 1.15.10.

Edit: wesnoth seems to be complaining about

Code: Select all

wesnoth.set_terrain(to_x, to_y, tile)
So either the new lua changes in master are broken, or another mod is using the same terrain code and it is confusing the lua?
I don't know. I doubt WF will be the only mod affected by this though.
vghetto
Posts: 441
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

weewah wrote: March 19th, 2021, 12:52 pm ....
Yes, I'm trying to solve the game not being as challenging after year 2 because they could get it over with before the first winter arrives.
But, I still want it to be flexible enough for speed runners, such as yourself.
It's all about trade-offs at this point.

I'm currently testing the game with the village limit. Strategy-wise it might be better to build the farms and fill in the yields at the same time, so when the limit is reached, the overall city size is reasonably defensible while you're waiting to raise the gold.

I like your suggestions about the upgrades, keep them coming please :)
I won't be doing them just now though, I'll need more time to test stuff.

As for the undead calamity. Yeah, once you kill off the main Lich it becomes trivial. I might make them appear in two groups instead.
User avatar
Lord-Knightmare
Discord Moderator
Posts: 1482
Joined: May 24th, 2010, 5:26 pm
Location: Somewhere in the depths of Irdya, gathering my army to eventually destroy the known world.
Contact:

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

lua/core/map.lua <- This change is in master, and not 1.15.10.
I use 1.15.10+dev so that explains why. Well, 1.15.11 might be coming out this Sunday, so I guess it would be an error in that version too.
vghetto
Posts: 441
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: March 19th, 2021, 6:36 pm
lua/core/map.lua <- This change is in master, and not 1.15.10.
I use 1.15.10+dev so that explains why. Well, 1.15.11 might be coming out this Sunday, so I guess it would be an error in that version too.
Thanks for the heads up.
I'm having a cursory look and this seems to be a wesnoth bug. It is complaining about the mode of the terrain replace being missing: base, overlay, both.
It's supposed to default to both.
and that the replace_if_failed flag is missing :/ I don't know what that is supposed to default to.

Maybe the devs need to look into this further.

Edit: This might fix it

Code: Select all

wesnoth.set_terrain(to_x, to_y, tile, "both", false)
vghetto
Posts: 441
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

This might be controversial.
In the original Cities of the Frontiers, you had less buildings and recruitable types

What if ... we tied some of those buildings to the rank? And maybe tie the number of factions you can quest for to the rank?
Going with just 2 ranks for now.

First rank you can build one of each recruiting building, plus other projects like wooden castles, farm yield, mushrooms, lighthouses, tunnels, wooden keeps, windmill, tavern. + basic functions, trees, mound, swamp etc.

Second rank you can build
Stone castle, stone keep, water villages, the rest of recruiting buildings and whatever else is left...

As for quests
Rank 1
Elves, Loyalists, Dunefolk, Outlaws
Rank 2
Dwarves, Orcs, Undead, Drakes.

starting village+yield limit is 40 and expanding will cost 1000

That was just a rough idea. I'm open to hearing your opinions.
weewah
Posts: 87
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

It might just be that undead winter ghost rush is too strong. I never found a good way to deal with them besides mass runes.

Ghosts basically only die during day, which is 1 out of 6 turns in winter. And on winter snow where their draining attacks rarely miss? It's even worse.

Without the gold for spamming mass runes, it will now take paladins (which are damn hard to get without mushrooms) or many squishy mages to kill ghosts in winter. Squishy squishy mages who will go squishy squished.

Frankly the cost for putting down winter ghost rushes is so high that all the calamities look laughably weak in comparison.
vghetto wrote: March 19th, 2021, 9:39 pm This might be controversial.
In the original Cities of the Frontiers, you had less buildings and recruitable types

What if ... we tied some of those buildings to the rank? And maybe tie the number of factions you can quest for to the rank?
Going with just 2 ranks for now.

First rank you can build one of each recruiting building, plus other projects like wooden castles, farm yield, mushrooms, lighthouses, tunnels, wooden keeps, windmill, tavern. + basic functions, trees, mound, swamp etc.

Second rank you can build
Stone castle, stone keep, water villages, the rest of recruiting buildings and whatever else is left...

As for quests
Rank 1
Elves, Loyalists, Dunefolk, Outlaws
Rank 2
Dwarves, Orcs, Undead, Drakes.

starting village+yield limit is 40 and expanding will cost 1000

That was just a rough idea. I'm open to hearing your opinions.
It may be better to allow choices? Like for the recruiting buildings, instead of allowing at most 1 of each type, just allow at most 4 recruiting buildings per rank, so the players can choose which buildings they want. (While this can be somewhat cheesed by building, recruiting, destroying, then building a different recruiting building, that's kinda expensive in terms of time and gold.)

Similarly for quests, why not just let players choose 2 factions to diplomacy with per rank?


You can also tie the lighthouse taunts and ally summons to the rank, have more units spawn per rank.

Edit: You could also make calamities harder by buffing up their units. If player units can get fancy artifacts and amlas, surely a calamity could get some too? You could randomly give each calamity unit either +50% hp, or +1 strike, or a ranged arcane magical 7-3 attack, or darken/illuminate, etc.
Delicius169
Posts: 186
Joined: February 16th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by Delicius169 »

Hello,
thank you for watter villages, I am really looking for them...

about the problem with too much money - it is simple solution - TAXES.
The kindgdom of wesnoth is sending out warriors to help, but they don´t take anything from you in return.
So with the increasing taxes they could steal some of your moneys. I would leave taxes for first two seasons as they are already difficult as they are.
Spring - no taxes
Summer - no taxes (or 5% of income)
Autumn - 10% taxes
Winter - 10%
Spring - 15%
Summer - 15%
Autumn - 20%
Winter - 25%


There could be even some kind of possibility to disobey kingdom, which could cause some big consequences to you (like half of your loyalist warriors turning against you, and attacking party from weldyn (how about 40-50 lvl three units?); so it could be realy bloodshed.

Or they could hire some goblin riders /you could give them hit and run ability - in Strange legacy AI use this ability to attack you, and then run into the nearest village, which they would burn).
vghetto
Posts: 441
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

I'm going to try the limit/rank approach first, if that doesn't work out, I'll give the taxes a shot.
I'm still playtesting the limits idea, I think it's reasonable and enjoyable.
I increased the ranks and changed some of the variables. I also decreased the number of available quest factions per rank.
The details can be found in the messy changelog.
I'll be doing the upload soon.
Thank you all for your input to WF :)
weewah
Posts: 87
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

What's a pilgrim?

Also, can the faction diplo mission 10 rewards be listed ingame? I can never remember what they are.

Lighthouses should also tell you how many times you have left to antagonize each enemy. For example, it could say "antagonize orcs (2/3), antagonize elves (1/3)," and so on.


Edit:

Bug: You are able to go above your farm limit by having a lot of workers build farms at the same time.

Bug: There is an artifact that says it gives "extra attacks", but instead it gives 2 extra strikes. I was disappointed to find that I could not attack multiple times per turn. :(

Edit2:

One of the loyalist diplomacy missions is building more farms. With the new limit on farms, this can cost thousands of gold to complete. How about changing it to building many roads instead of farms?
Post Reply