Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply
Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3333
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by Konrad2 »

Just put me in the credits and I'll be happy. :D
bottle4westnoth
Posts: 16
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by bottle4westnoth »

Any news about 1.15.14 / 16.1 beta compatibility and improvements?
Thanks :)
User avatar
Adamant14
Posts: 967
Joined: April 24th, 2010, 1:14 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by Adamant14 »

Just a few small changes, a little cosmetics, no big stuff.
Do you have any suggestions?
Wishes? Ideas? Improvements?
I am always happy to receive constructive suggestions and ideas. (And of course to get replays)
;)
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR
bottle4westnoth
Posts: 16
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by bottle4westnoth »

Adamant14 wrote: June 29th, 2021, 6:06 pm Do you have any suggestions?
Wishes? Ideas? Improvements?
1.
Segurd should not have TRAIT_DEXTROUS, as he is only melee fighter
Both Taedd & Segurd, being loyal guys can have their stories same as Owald ?

Overall, my ideas for skills for these 3 guys:
Owald
{TRAIT_LOYAL}
{TRAIT_DEXTROUS}
{TRAIT_QUICK}
+ 80% range // already in game

Segurd
{TRAIT_LOYAL}
{TRAIT_STRONG}
{TRAIT_RESILIENT}
can have {ABILITY_BLOODLUST}

Taedd
{TRAIT_LOYAL}
{TRAIT_DEXTROUS}
{TRAIT_STRONG}
can have {ABILITY_AMBUSH}

2. Map 03_Lord_Othar

right forest of the map may have some event?

3. Map 04_Throught_the_goblin_hills

maybe player can find something inside the north forest?

4. Maybe it is better to change default Gelphrad's picture and pictures of his advancement?
Not to White Mage, but to Ruffian-->Mage-->Silver Mage-->Mage of Lustre (like in Era_Reign_of_Heroes)
He already has illusions, maybe teleport is better then heal

5. Careonryn have WEAPON_SPECIAL_CLEAVE
Maybe it is better to change his unit graphic into Double-hands sword fighter?
User avatar
Adamant14
Posts: 967
Joined: April 24th, 2010, 1:14 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by Adamant14 »

bottle4westnoth wrote: June 30th, 2021, 8:40 pm Segurd should not have TRAIT_DEXTROUS, as he is only melee fighter
Good point, I wonder that no one has noticed this before. I will change that.

bottle4westnoth wrote: June 30th, 2021, 8:40 pm Both Taedd & Segurd, being loyal guys can have their stories same as Owald ?
Segurd and Owald tell their story together, alternately. What kind of story could Taed tell, if not the same or a very similar story?

bottle4westnoth wrote: June 30th, 2021, 8:40 pm Overall, my ideas for skills for these 3 guys:
Owald
{TRAIT_LOYAL}
{TRAIT_DEXTROUS}
{TRAIT_QUICK}
+ 80% range // already in game

Segurd
{TRAIT_LOYAL}
{TRAIT_STRONG}
{TRAIT_RESILIENT}
can have {ABILITY_BLOODLUST}

Taedd
{TRAIT_LOYAL}
{TRAIT_DEXTROUS}
{TRAIT_STRONG}
can have {ABILITY_AMBUSH}
I agree to the changes to the traits. I'm not sure about the abilities. Ambush for Taedd maybe, although when I think of Ambush I always think of Elves, or Wose. But when I think of Bloodlust, I always think of Bad Guys, and at least the name doesn't fit a Good Guy, does it?

bottle4westnoth wrote: June 30th, 2021, 8:40 pm 2. Map 03_Lord_Othar

right forest of the map may have some event?
For years, I've been thinking the same thing in every playtest I do. Every time I think something could be added there. Some nasty animals or something like that.

bottle4westnoth wrote: June 30th, 2021, 8:40 pm 3. Map 04_Throught_the_goblin_hills

maybe player can find something inside the north forest?
I don't think it's a good idea to waste time roaming the misty hills in this scenario. The aim of this scenario is to get as many units as possible safely to the finish line, and that as quickly as possible. There is no time to waste. And in the hills the goblins are on their favourite terrain, they are strong there while most of your units are not. There is also a lot to find in this campaign, almost too much.

bottle4westnoth wrote: June 30th, 2021, 8:40 pm 4. Maybe it is better to change default Gelphrad's picture and pictures of his advancement?
Not to White Mage, but to Ruffian-->Mage-->Silver Mage-->Mage of Lustre (like in Era_Reign_of_Heroes)
He already has illusions, maybe teleport is better then heal
I don't understand why you want to change the portraits. What is wrong with them and what benefit a change would bring. :hmm:

You will fight a lot against the undead in this campaign, and a white magician of light is priceless there, while I see little advantage or use in a teleporter. Yes, I've already thought of it myself, but rejected the idea because of the above reasons.

bottle4westnoth wrote: June 30th, 2021, 8:40 pm 5. Careonryn have WEAPON_SPECIAL_CLEAVE
Maybe it is better to change his unit graphic into Double-hands sword fighter?
That's a misunderstanding, Careonryn doesn't have two swords, that's not to be confused with something like LotI's Whirlwind. No, Careonryn wields a single but large and heavy, longsword, and with such a sweeping swing, and such a force that he can injure up to three opponents at the same time.
That's what is meant here with cleave. Cleave like cut through.

Thank you for your suggestions, I'll include some of them in the next upload.
More feedback is welcome. :)
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR
bottle4westnoth
Posts: 16
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by bottle4westnoth »

Adamant14 wrote: July 1st, 2021, 5:38 pm I don't think it's a good idea to waste time roaming the misty hills in this scenario.
Example : u can find[or steal from goblins] EGG of Griggon or even maybe Falcon in Goblin's mountain and then next missions train your unique pet from child to fighter-pet :-)
:-) lot of people love pets
Adamant14 wrote: July 1st, 2021, 5:38 pm For years, I've been thinking the same thing in every playtest I do.
Example: u can find small sprout of Woses and use same "pet logic". We can even introduce sub-quest of "bring a sprout back to Woses community", then get special reward.
Adamant14 wrote: July 1st, 2021, 5:38 pm I don't understand why you want to change the portraits.
Why student goes same way as a teacher? Gelphrad is a special boy. His abilities are super special and unknown. Making clone of a teacher is a good way? Debatable. IMHO, Gelphrad's skills and upgrades should be unique surprise-line made. Nobody, even he himself don't know his future and power inside.
Adamant14 wrote: July 1st, 2021, 5:38 pm Segurd and Owald tell their story together, alternately. What kind of story could Taed tell, if not the same or a very similar story?
I mean right-click future where you can read about loyal character. Almost all loyal characters have their stories. Lets give stories for all loyal guys.
Adamant14 wrote: July 1st, 2021, 5:38 pm ...I think of Bloodlust, I always think of Bad Guys...
"He kept saying we needed to meet violence with violence!!!"
Adamant14 wrote: July 1st, 2021, 5:38 pm ----That's a misunderstanding, Careonryn doesn't have two swords,
I thought about 2H sword unit without shield.
User avatar
Adamant14
Posts: 967
Joined: April 24th, 2010, 1:14 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by Adamant14 »

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 1st, 2021, 6:25 pm Example: u can find small sprout of Woses and use same "pet logic". We can even introduce sub-quest of "bring a sprout back to Woses community", then get special reward.
Woses make their first appearance in scenario 7, and that's why I don't want to have a wose beforehand.

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 1st, 2021, 6:25 pm Why student goes same way as a teacher? Gelphrad is a special boy. His abilities are super special and unknown. Making clone of a teacher is a good way? Debatable. IMHO, Gelphrad's skills and upgrades should be unique surprise-line made. Nobody, even he himself don't know his future and power inside.
Someone who does an apprenticeship with a carpenter becomes a carpenter, someone who does an apprenticeship with a butcher becomes a butcher, so it is only logical that someone who does an apprenticeship with a Mage of Light becomes a Mage of Light , correct? That Gelphrad has extraordinary powers, and that he is something special is out of the question, but that has nothing to do with its training. In the end, Gelphrad will be much more powerful than his teacher, maybe he could then teach his master something. :lol:

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 1st, 2021, 6:25 pm
Adamant14 wrote: July 1st, 2021, 5:38 pm Segurd and Owald tell their story together, alternately. What kind of story could Taed tell, if not the same or a very similar story?
I mean right-click future where you can read about loyal character. Almost all loyal characters have their stories. Lets give stories for all loyal guys.
Ah, now I understand what you mean. These wonderful short descriptions were written by two brilliant people who are unfortunately no longer active in the Wesnoth Community. Gooby and Kanzil. I'm not that good of a writer myself, with ideas as good as those two had. So I can only hope that someone who is good at writing short stories will help out and write the missing short hero descriptions.

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 1st, 2021, 6:25 pm
Adamant14 wrote: July 1st, 2021, 5:38 pm ----That's a misunderstanding, Careonryn doesn't have two swords,
I thought about 2H sword unit without shield.
Ah, I got you wrong. That would actually make sense. Unfortunately, that would require good sprites and a good portrait. Since I'm not an artist, I can't make them myself. And I haven't seen anything suitable in other campaigns or UMCs either.
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR
bottle4westnoth
Posts: 16
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by bottle4westnoth »

Adamant14 wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 7:46 am 1) ...These wonderful short descriptions were written by two brilliant people who are unfortunately...
Let's try to request both "services" from community in target forum sections ? :-)
Adamant14 wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 7:46 am ...Unfortunately, that would require good sprites and a good portrait...
Field Marshal, Lieutenant General, Captain General from Betrayal of Thaeylan looks great!
https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/Betrayal ... S/BoT.html
Adamant14 wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 7:46 am but that has nothing to do with its training
I understand your point of view, make sense. Maybe I just don't like similarity of icons for teacher and student and think that main story heroes may have different graphics - that is my main idea. Anyway - u are the master of your campaign:)


Thanks! And i'm ready to test new build of the campaign ;-)
bottle4westnoth
Posts: 16
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by bottle4westnoth »

Adamant14, hi!
with the new update 1.13.46 I found some bugs:
1) Gelphrad's over-level_up "FLAIL +1 damage" does not work
2) Antar's marksmanship upgrade exist but does not mentioned by text. For instance Careonryn has it like "marksmanship, crossbow +1 damage"

please, can you check it.
thanks!


p.s. would be cool idea to recruit the Spearman, then go next to the Horse [or better attack the horse will trigger], -> transformation into the default Horseman or even better Horseman of Freelands https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/The_Wolv ... seman.html
but if so, then Bay Horse to Great Horse update is not necessary, we can simply use White Horse from the default era
And same logic can be executed for Thug unit
for instance they may transform into https://units.wesnoth.org/1.15/mainline ... ghter.html (graphics from Eastern Invasion campaign & remove melee-blade type of damage)
// overall - the main idea - you can or buy mounted unit or mount it manually to get special mounted unit


p.s. maybe you will find it as a nice idea to replace scorplings by flowers (with stats modifications)
https://www.wesnoth.org/units/1.14/The_ ... 0Herb.html
&
https://www.wesnoth.org/units/1.14/The_ ... 0Evil.html
scorplings are tend to be sand or cave creatures, right? not forest as I know
+ maybe one of our mages could find magic stick here after battle and become like (left-hand):
https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/Everfell ... 0Mage.html
User avatar
Adamant14
Posts: 967
Joined: April 24th, 2010, 1:14 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by Adamant14 »

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 2nd, 2021, 3:35 pm Field Marshal, Lieutenant General, Captain General from Betrayal of Thaeylan looks great!
https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/Betrayal ... S/BoT.html
No a particularly successful Frankenstein sprite, especially the levels 3 and 4 are not. No good quality, I prefer to keep what I have.

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 4th, 2021, 9:17 pm Adamant14, hi!
with the new update 1.13.46 I found some bugs:
I have published the update just yesterday, and you have already found a few mistakes, wow. :P

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 4th, 2021, 9:17 pm 1) Gelphrad's over-level_up "FLAIL +1 damage" does not work
2) Antar's marksmanship upgrade exist but does not mentioned by text. For instance Careonryn has it like "marksmanship, crossbow +1 damage"
Both easy to fix, thank you for noticing.

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 4th, 2021, 9:17 pm p.s. would be cool idea to recruit the Spearman, then go next to the Horse [or better attack the horse will trigger]
The horses should actually only be decoration, but the walking corpses can turn the horses into zombie horses, which means additional opponents for Antar and his men.
I like your idea, that every non-mounted troop that reaches the horse-coupling becomes a rider. I have already seen that, namely in Beetlenauts campaign The Founding of Borstep. Cool campaign with a lots of cool ideas. In his campaign, you can turn simple goblins into Wolfrider this way.
Maybe I should think about it nevertheless.

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 4th, 2021, 9:17 pm transformation into the default Horseman or even better Horseman of Freelands https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/The_Wolv ... seman.html
Looks really good, but sadly not animated. Generally I prefer animated sprites, and that's why I stay with the standard horseman.

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 4th, 2021, 9:17 pm And same logic can be executed for Thug unit
for instance they may transform into https://units.wesnoth.org/1.15/mainline ... ghter.html
This rider carries heavy armor, Thugs do not wear armor, so that sprite does not fit so well.

bottle4westnoth wrote: July 4th, 2021, 9:17 pm p.s. maybe you will find it as a nice idea to replace scorplings by flowers (with stats modifications)
https://www.wesnoth.org/units/1.14/The_ ... 0Herb.html
&
https://www.wesnoth.org/units/1.14/The_ ... 0Evil.html
scorplings are tend to be sand or cave creatures, right? not forest as I know
+ maybe one of our mages could find magic stick here after battle and become like (left-hand):
https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/Everfell ... 0Mage.html
For the real world that may apply to scorpions, but in Wesnoth I often have seen scorpions in swamps and other terrain. WINR.
I like the carnivorous plants, earn an own extra scenario, and not such a small minor event. Maybe one day. :P

Hmm, the mage sprites do not differ from the original, only the rods were changed, and the head at level 3.
I like the idea of finding a special magic wand, but Dagor and especially Gelphrad are already very strong, Gelphrad maybe even overpowered. Would it be good to make him even stronger?

Thank you for your feedback, I hope you enjoy the campaign.
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR
bottle4westnoth
Posts: 16
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by bottle4westnoth »

Adamant14 wrote: July 5th, 2021, 3:38 pm In his campaign, you can turn simple goblins into Wolfrider this way.
Right! I was inspired by the same idea! "Up The River Bork" campaign
Adamant14 wrote: July 5th, 2021, 3:38 pm Looks really good, but sadly not animated. Generally I prefer animated sprites, and that's why I stay with the standard horseman.
Here I want to note that Today, even good pc or Mac suffer with performance of the game. So, many players have to turn off all units and map animation. Recently I asked about this in discord and had an answer that game GPU acceleration dev attempt were burn in ashes. No good news.
As a result, I see nothing bad with units without animations. Sadly, but true :-(
Adamant14 wrote: July 5th, 2021, 3:38 pm This rider carries heavy armor, Thugs do not wear armor, so that sprite does not fit so well.
oh, my bad, I mean Heavy Infantryman. However, the story can play with some elements of Thugs. For instance - put armor next to the horse. So, the complex unit is the quintessence of the 3 elements: basic unit, armor, horse.

p.s.
one more funcy mount example
https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/AfterEI/en_US/Groom.html
Adamant14 wrote: July 5th, 2021, 3:38 pm I like the idea of finding a special magic wand, but Dagor and especially Gelphrad are already very strong, Gelphrad maybe even overpowered. Would it be good to make him even stronger?
The idea:
this wand is for Gelphrad, only with this wand he will have an ability to heal. Before, he has only flail. And "magic" from hands.
The background is so: every mage has to find or create his(her) own magic wand. There are no identical wand in the world.
Yes, some balancing may take place. I can help with it if you want.
Adamant14 wrote: July 5th, 2021, 3:38 pm I have published the update just yesterday, and you have already found a few mistakes, wow. :P
oh this IT qa/qc background lol
bottle4westnoth
Posts: 16
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by bottle4westnoth »

Any update for 1.16 ? ^_^
User avatar
Adamant14
Posts: 967
Joined: April 24th, 2010, 1:14 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by Adamant14 »

bottle4westnoth wrote: October 28th, 2021, 12:26 pm Any update for 1.16 ? ^_^
Some small optimizations and corrections, nothing that would be visible to the player (if the latest version were already released).
Any ideas, suggestions, wishes? ^_^
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR
bottle4westnoth
Posts: 16
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread]

Post by bottle4westnoth »

Adamant14 wrote: October 28th, 2021, 7:49 pm
bottle4westnoth wrote: October 28th, 2021, 12:26 pm Any update for 1.16 ? ^_^
Some small optimizations and corrections, nothing that would be visible to the player (if the latest version were already released).
Any ideas, suggestions, wishes? ^_^
Maybe some from my July 6th, 2021 answer? :-)
User avatar
Spannerbag
Posts: 505
Joined: December 18th, 2016, 6:14 pm
Location: Yes

Re: Antar, Son of Rheor [Development Thread] BfW 1.16 weirdness

Post by Spannerbag »

Hi,
Don't think this has been reported, but apologies if I missed the post.

Playing on BfW 1.16 and Antar was "reset" (presumably re-created) in Elvish Outpost (scenario 5).
At the end of Goblin Hills (scenario 4) he is a Master at Arms but reverts to Fencer with zero experience in the next scenario :-?

I thought at first it was because I used hit-and-run to get one last attack before retreating but omitting this makes no difference.
When the scenario ends the last (I think) non-loyal unit re-appears on the signpost - should this be Antar?
This unit is listed in the recall list.

Anyway here are the relevant screen dumps.

Antar just before end of Goblin Hills:
antar-gh.png

Then at scenario end:
antar-gh2.png

Finally, start of next scenario:
antar-eo.png
There's nothing in the log except:
error config: Error while loading the map: Unknown tile in map: (Chr^Y25) 'Chr^Y25'
I don't think that's relevant (I get a similar message in my UMC but the game plays just fine :whistle: )

Version info:
The Battle for Wesnoth version 1.16.0 x86_64
Running on Microsoft Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (6.1.7601) x86_64
Distribution channel: SourceForge
...
Antar: 1.13.46
...


Happy to send replays, saves etc. if that would help.

Cheers,
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
Post Reply