Backing up a turn

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AladorIsithir
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Backing up a turn

Post by AladorIsithir »

I find it kinda cheep to be able to back up a turn after a couple of your level 2-3 guys get killed during a campaign. But then again, it is kinda nice to know you can redo you mistakes. I tried to play through Son Of Black Eye without backing up. I failed miserably. If all my attacks missed or something bad happened i backed up. Whats your take?
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The Great Rings
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by The Great Rings »

Its useful, though I would have more respect for the skill of a player who used it less. I mean, at a certain point it can be abused I think, as even the worst player can win through luck if they replay enough.

I don't usually go back just because I lost a good unit. I shrug, basically say "that's war," and go on to try to level a replacement. If I lose, or can't see any likelihood of winning, then maybe I go back a bit.
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zookeeper
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by zookeeper »

Well, one common method you can use which isn't frowned upon is simply restarting the whole scenario if you've suffered unacceptable losses.
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thespaceinvader
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by thespaceinvader »

You could always set autosaves to 0.

Or jus NOT use them. You don't have to just because they're there.
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by Yogibear »

If i do a tactical mistake (for example i missed to notice that scout who afterwards kills an important unit), i go back a turn and adjust. For me, there is nothing wrong with that. I could of course start over the scenario again, but i really don't want to invest that much time.

To repeat the turn over and over again the same way to wait for the right luck is kind of cheap, i agree on that.
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Skrim
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by Skrim »

I go back 1-2 turns if I make a tactical error, like accidentally using a Druid's Thorn attack when I was supposed to use the Ensnare attack, or not noticing an enemy Gryphon or other fast unit which could kill one of my units. I then rectify the error.

If I make some major strategic error, get bogged down, or completely fail to notice something important, I restart the scenario.

Save-loading actually takes more time and saps the fun out, so it's pointless as well as cheap.
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by HomerJ »

I'm only using the autosaves now to be able to undo clicking accidents, e.g. unit movement (fog or shroud), recruiting the wrong unit etc. Other than that I usually load the beginning of scenario save if I don't see any chance to go on with the campaign with the results I got.


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Dokkal
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by Dokkal »

Well, in HttT, if I ever play that again, I'll make darn sure I don't loose any higher-tier units, since I could not finish it last time I tried...
Velensk
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by Velensk »

That isn't a good additude either. Higher level units are expendable, you just have to know how expendable and be willing to accept their lose. In the harder campaigns if you try to save every leveled unit you are in for hours of frustration.

On topic: I think that everyone should strive to get to the point where they can beat campaigns without loading autosaves (you can turn them off if the temptation is too great). On the other hand, I certainly don't frown on people who are simply playing through a campaign they've already beaten for fun using it to save them some frustration.
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stupidjaguar
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by stupidjaguar »

I unfortunately do load a lot, but I'm trying to do it a lot less so that my skill increases. I get very attached to units that I've spent effort leveling... I'll usually let expendable Level 1's go, but units that I leveled to 2 and 3 and 4, unless they are easy to level, are usually saved. It takes great effort for me to accept the loss of higher level units, although sometimes I have. It makes winning less fun, you know? If the object is to simply win, well that can be done. But if you win losing all your good troops, it saps the fun out of winning. That's just my take.
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bvanevery
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by bvanevery »

Velensk wrote:That isn't a good additude either. Higher level units are expendable, you just have to know how expendable and be willing to accept their lose. In the harder campaigns if you try to save every leveled unit you are in for hours of frustration.
I disagree. I play "perfectly." That is to say, the goal of every one of my turns, is to effect a perfect offense that levels up my guys, doesn't expose the important guys to any deadly counterattack, and positions expendable cannon fodder as bait. If my strategy wasn't perfect, indeed if it proved to be rather bad due to luck, some unseen unit, or some unexpected consideration, I start the turn over. I do tons of save-load-save-load-save-load. For me the point of the game is to level up my kewl guys. I only sacrifice my kewl guys if there's absolutely no other way to make it through a level. Sometimes a level is designed to be ridiculously hard and you'll have to take lots of Level 3 combat losses to get through it.

Occasionally I accept the loss of one of my kewl guys if I think it was "fair." Like, if I'm facing a Level 4 Lich and I'm running out of turns. I prefer, however, to bombard Liches with a pile of Level 1 Thug cannon fodder.

I do notice that all the save-load-save-load-save-load makes Wesnoth a much longer game for me. All that repeating of turns to find the best tactic. Hey, AIs do it, just a lot faster than I do it. Why shouldn't I? I'm not going to sit around with pencil and paper, planning my move "offscreen." I'm going to use the game's UI to plan my move, discarding what doesn't work.
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jmegner
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by jmegner »

bvanevery wrote: ...For me the point of the game is to level up my kewl guys...

I do notice that all the save-load-save-load-save-load makes Wesnoth a much longer game for me. All that repeating of turns to find the best tactic. Hey, AIs do it, just a lot faster than I do it. Why shouldn't I? I'm not going to sit around with pencil and paper, planning my move "offscreen." I'm going to use the game's UI to plan my move, discarding what doesn't work.
Perhaps a RPG would be more in line with your desires.

Do you save-load-repeat multiple times within the same turn or do you restart the turn? If you restart the turn and try different things, then maybe you are trying to find the best tactic. If you save-load-repeat multiple times a turn and often do exactly the same moves, the majority of your motivation is probably to get favorable hits/misses.
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Aethaeryn
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by Aethaeryn »

I mostly save-load to revise tactics if I screw up majorly (such as losing an important unit, or just losing momentum).

I do have to admit, I've reloaded once or twice when that Thunderer misses a necessary 60% chance to hit (and kill) when the turns are almost up... again... and again... and again... and again (seriously, it did take about 5 reloads). I hate Thunderers.
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cretin
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by cretin »

i love using it, cause i hate losing units, but i hate using it, cause it IS cheap. quite a problem for me. im trying to wean myself off of using it. i mean level restart isnt cheap, just the few moves back to fix a mistake.

i remember one campaign i played where i got myself into a situation where 3 or 4 elite of mine died, and i went back over and over again until all 3-4 survived. then the next turn i had to do it again, cause another group of guys started to die. somtimes, i would go up to an hour just repeating the same turn to get it just right.

its a nice feature if not abused. well its a nice feature period. but it probably is often used a lot.
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Zarel
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Re: Backing up a turn

Post by Zarel »

jmegner wrote:Perhaps a RPG would be more in line with your desires.
Sadly, Wesnoth is probably a better RPG than most other FOSS RPGs I know of.

I mean, sure, Nethack and other roguelikes qualify as FOSS RPGs, but they all have permadeath, which bvanevery would very much dislike. Plus, after using Wesnoth's damage system, Nethack's damage system stops making sense ("How is a spear a good weapon against skeletons?").
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