Scenario Review: THoT 10 - The Siege of Kal Kartha

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Hammer of Thursagan.

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JTamas
Posts: 4
Joined: July 29th, 2021, 5:41 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 10 - The Siege of Kal Kartha

Post by JTamas »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Normal, 1.15.15.


(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It was great. I liked the 'siege' style of the scenario. The suspicous and 'foretelling' dialogue was also very well done and made me want to continue playing the campaign to see where the storyline would go.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The orc leaders are surprisingly powerful and hard to defeat. It is difficult not to lose some of your high quality leveled-up units against them.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)


8. Siege-type battle is fun, story is interesting and engaing.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I think it is good as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Nope.
mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 10 - The Siege of Kal Kartha

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.16.6 Lord Challenging
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. too easy.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear. I like the dynamic between Movrur and Duncatulos, building more suspense about the big upcoming twist, as well as learning more about dwarvish culture and history. I still don't like how inconsistent the dwarvish dialects are. Duncatulos uses some very fancy/archaic language, e.g. "sore pressed", "on the morrow", but the rest of the time he speaks in the same generic american english as everyone else. I would still love for the Kal Kartha dwarves to have some consistent and distinct way of talking that sets them apart from humans and/or Knalgan dwarves.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
zero. very easy and boring.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1. Barely anything.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I saw earlier in the comments that Inky finished this in 9 turns, and I took that as a personal challenge, so I was able to get it in 8 (replay included). This was no impressive tactical feat, just a matter of calculating the most efficient walking routes. In the entire scenario, I killed a total of 7 units, INCLUDING the 3 leaders. This is a big complicated siege battle with lots of units on both sides, but you have zero incentive and almost zero opportunity to interact with any of it. I agree with the suggestions of some of the earlier posters, like moving the central orc keep further west, or your own starting point further east, so that more of the orc units will be diverted toward your forces, rather than all running east and leaving their leaders to be casually assassinated.
Maybe you could add some sort of teleport runes/tunnels, that would allow you to transport units instantaneously from near your keep directly to the allied keep. As it is, the allied leader gets a surge of reinforcements at some point, but you could eliminate or reduce that so that the player would be forced to split their forces between the assassination teams in the west and reinforcing the siege in the east. This would introduce interesting choices and make the battle much more interactive for the player. You could add some dialogue justifying it, saying that Movrur knows the secret routes built into the Kal Kartha fortresses for sieges just like this.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I restarted just to get the fastest possible finish, which for me was 8 turns, but this wasn't really necessary.
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JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 10 - The Siege of Kal Kartha

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Lord / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Not much dialogue here. It's really confusing though as to why the orcs are attacking Kal Kartha, given everything that has come before insinuating that they are allied. This map seems to be basically unchanged from previous versions (which is a good thing), and back then there wasn't all this weird stuff about the masked dwarves seemingly hiring the orcs etc. Now, though, its basic premise of them being in conflict appears inconsistent.

Another minor glitch is that the ally yells "Kal Kartha shall not fall" at the end of turn 6, but then nothing else happens. He then gets a big pile of reinforcements on the *next* turn, after the player moves. I think these two events are probably supposed to be connected – it would be clearer if he made his declaration at the same time as when he was actually recruiting new units.

Finally, I think the old version was a bit better here in explaining why some of the Kal Kartha dwarves are masked and others are not – there was a mention of Karrag's "personal followers" and them being locked away together toiling over the hammer. This kind of gets lost in the revised dialogue and it's not as clear about where the masked ones fit in.
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
There's not going to be any carryover gold from the Forbidden Forest, so troops are a bit thin here. The ally isn't exactly a tactical genius, and even with his reinforcements there's a real risk of losing him if you don't push forward fast enough to at least pull some of the enemy troops away from his keep. The enemy leaders are level 3 and have a solid base income, so they have to be approached with caution.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 – This is a really well-balanced and engaging scenario, probably the second-best in the campaign (after the final one). Initially it looks like Ductapelaxatose, or whatever his name is (the ally), is going to get completely overrun and you are too slow to stop it, but then he gets his reinforcements and it seems to be just barely enough so that you can get there and bail him out. You really get the sense of rushing in right in the nick of time for the rescue.
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None, other than revising/reverting the overall campaign to remove the inconsistent weirdness about what is going on between the orcs and Kal Kartha's leadership.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

This campaign has deteriorated a bit since the last time I played. Which sucks, because it used to be one of the absolute best. There are still some very strong points – particularly in the last few scenarios (I'm agnostic about the changes to the final map; both versions of that one are good) – and the core strength of the writing continues to carry it. I love how the story develops the heathen culture of the dwarves and their sense of honor etc. However, it desperately needs some work, or restoration, around the middle of the campaign to resolve the confusing events, logical lapses, and frustrating gameplay that have been introduced. I really dislike the addition of the character Movrur, who is not as strong in the writing and kind of ruins the mystery and sense of exploration and adventure that drove the original campaign. In addition to having less mystery and tension, the story is now very confusing and illogical in places, and the maps around scenarios 3–5 are much less enjoyable than previous versions. This used to be one of my favorite campaigns in Wesnoth, five out of five, full marks, but I can't really say that anymore. I'll give it 3 out of 5 stars for the current version, and that is generous based on the lingering writing strength and still having a few solid maps. Would really, really love to see this campaign developed or restored a bit to bring it back to where it could be.
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