Scenario Review: THoT 1 - At the East Gate

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Hammer of Thursagan.

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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 1 - At the East Gate

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.1, Challenging (Lord)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Interesting and clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

None. The Orcs come pretty much one by one.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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supperman
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 1 - At the East Gate

Post by supperman »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 10:19 pm (1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging 1.12.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. Beside Aiglondur and the gryphon rider, all units are expendable so you only need to make sure you control more villages than AI, which is easy with the rider.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It introduces the Northern Alliance and foreshadows inclusion of orcs in it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Beating the orcs when you naturally meet them at night. Thunderers' matches never work when they would be needed.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, because gryphon rider trumps a wolf rider.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe more hills for dwarves? Now you have to fight at terrain disadvantage unless you let orcs near your base in the beginning.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Beat it on the first try.
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Atreides
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 1 - At the East Gate

Post by Atreides »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 10:19 pm This is the scenario The Hammer of Thursagan campaign begins with. If you've recently played this scenario, please tell us your thoughts about it.

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear & interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It is fine
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No losses, won on first play, levelled leader - although, the loyal Griffon came dangerously close to death early on
mal_shubertal
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 1 - At the East Gate

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.16.6 Lord (Challenging)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear. Shows the various factions reacting to the new Northern Alliance.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
lack of defensive terrain
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2. Very simplistic.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Change the terrain to give more choices. As it is, it's a very big map but 70% of it is just used for the griffin rider to fly around grabbing villages unopposed, and there is just one direct obvious path from your keep to the enemy, so the major battle occurs in mostly flat/wooded terrain. There are some interesting choices there, as you try to make sure the fighting happens mostly in flat areas and avoid the forests which benefit only the orcs and not you, but there are really not many tactical choices to be made. You just recruit a mix of units, travel straight down the road, try to rotate them and minimize casualties, then attack the leader. It's kind of boring that you have to spend the first 3-4 turns just walking your army straight across a big empty map. I think it could be improved by making the map smaller and placing the river closer to the center, as well as some more variety of terrain in the center of the map, so the player has more interesting choices about where and how to arrange forces. You could also start the scenario with some orcish units already placed near your starting keep, to simulate the 'surprise attack' on the gate, so you are fighting immediately while the main orcish army claims villages and advances toward you.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no, very simple.
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JL42
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Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 1 - At the East Gate

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Lord / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Mostly clear. The writing throughout this campaign is extremely good, though I feel like some of the newly introduced material around the character Movrur is not really up to the standards of the original. In this particular scenario, when Movrur shows up he says, "I have been tracking that orc ... He be part of a band of raiders ...." This sounds like he be hangin' with Baldras from "Liberty" fo to long. In addition to being internally inconsistent ("have been" / "be"), it's just not how the dwarves in the rest of the campaign talk, and in the next scenario he goes right back to being more grammatical again. Kind of grating.

The other thing that bothers me a bit here is why do the dwarves need to rush out and fight the orcs on unfavorable terrain anyway. To beat the timer, obviously; but why is there a timer? They're defending their gate in the mountains from a position of strength; they should be able to just hang back there forever. Perhaps these farms are where the dwarves get their food, so they must be defended? Not really clear. And if the timer does run out, there's still no explanation; it's just "you lose." Maybe it could be something like: "Aiglondur's superior, arriving to tour the gate, found him cowering as the orcs pillaged the farmland. He was reprimanded for his timidity and became a social outcast, never to be from again." In any case, needs some kind of explanation for why we need to come out of the mountains.
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The terrain favors the enemy; they have a lot more gold/troops than you; they are a lot faster than you; and you have no healing. Honestly I found this one to be uncomfortably hard for an opening scenario (not sure why other commenters above described it as easy). It wasn't impossible or anything, but I'm not a huge fan of these low-defense fights – they always turn into bloodbaths, it's hard to keep your desirable units alive, and it reduces the importance of skill. Due to the urgent (and unexplained) timer there's no way to win this one other than just charging out into the central dirt-pit and hoping that you land more hits than the enemy does. I restarted numerous times due to, first, trying to find some way to fight in good terrain and running out of time; then later, due to getting my entire army wiped out and nobody being able to keep any XP (which will be sorely needed in the upcoming scenarios).
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3 – It's a simple map that doesn't give you many options to work with. I love playing with dwarves and love the overall storyline here, but this opening scenario is a bit meh.
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
First and most important, I would get rid of the Movrur character. He really messes up this campaign throughout and makes it a lot less coherent and less enjoyable compared to previous versions. Maybe also some dialogue tweaks to clarify the importance of charging out urgently to attack the orcs. I might think about modifying the terrain a bit, like perhaps putting a few hill tiles along the central area, to give the player something more interesting to work with.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

This campaign has deteriorated a bit since the last time I played. Which sucks, because it used to be one of the absolute best. There are still some very strong points – particularly in the last few scenarios (I'm agnostic about the changes to the final map; both versions of that one are good) – and the core strength of the writing continues to carry it. I love how the story develops the heathen culture of the dwarves and their sense of honor etc. However, it desperately needs some work, or restoration, around the middle of the campaign to resolve the confusing events, logical lapses, and frustrating gameplay that have been introduced. I really dislike the addition of the character Movrur, who is not as strong in the writing and kind of ruins the mystery and sense of exploration and adventure that drove the original campaign. In addition to having less mystery and tension, the story is now very confusing and illogical in places, and the maps around scenarios 3–5 are much less enjoyable than previous versions. This used to be one of my favorite campaigns in Wesnoth, five out of five, full marks, but I can't really say that anymore. I'll give it 3 out of 5 stars for the current version, and that is generous based on the lingering writing strength and still having a few great maps. Would really, really love to see this campaign developed or restored a bit to bring it back to where it could be.
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