Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Feedback for the mainline campaign Descent into Darkness.

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by zookeeper »

Actually, the rats, bats and spiders are supposed to be guardians (as in, not move until you come within range) instead of all charging at you in the beginning, but someone broke that part of the scenario in 1.13 so that's why it's so hard. Expect it fixed in the next release... :whistle:
Entengelaende
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by Entengelaende »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Hard, 1.12.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Very interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Surviving the first bat that comes across my way
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 9
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? None
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? Bad RNG getting me killed on the first rat/bat
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Britannicus
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by Britannicus »

zookeeper wrote:Actually, the rats, bats and spiders are supposed to be guardians (as in, not move until you come within range) instead of all charging at you in the beginning, but someone broke that part of the scenario in 1.13 so that's why it's so hard. Expect it fixed in the next release... :whistle:
Actually, it's broken in 1.12.6 as well, replay is attached.

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Version 1.12.6, Challenging.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Alright, starts off strong, then sharply declines.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Counting how many trolls were within striking range of my non-ghost-units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7, the exploration and the surprise at the lake are nice. I forgot about the other surprise, might replay it soon.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe make it a bit harder. If you have accumulated a decent roster, the missions is extremely easy in the current state.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Making very stupid recall choices.
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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by zookeeper »

Britannicus wrote:Actually, it's broken in 1.12.6 as well, replay is attached.
No, that replay shows them only attacking when you come in range of them. The aforementioned bug was about them coming at you even from halfway across the map.
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Britannicus
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by Britannicus »

zookeeper wrote:
Britannicus wrote:Actually, it's broken in 1.12.6 as well, replay is attached.
No, that replay shows them only attacking when you come in range of them. The aforementioned bug was about them coming at you even from halfway across the map.
Ah, alright, sorry about the misunderstanding!
Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging, Version 1.14.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6, gold combined with timer if I remember this correctly.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I liked that beginning, the rest was okay.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Taking out the only trolls that actively walked over to attack me.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6, friendly tree was nice.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No idea. ^^

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Overextending.
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LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Kinda unclear if I had to drain life from rats and bats, but once I got the signal to waste trolls away, then it was clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- It's good. Kinda lacking at the ending, but the transformation sequence was pretty chilling and awesome

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Making sure not troll shamans kill or in this case, un-kill my dead units

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- None to think about

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No
Mawmoocn
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by Mawmoocn »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Hard, Bat and loyal units only gameplay

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The scenario is the culmination of his efforts, resulted in vain(???).

A great "new" "life" which is probably meant to kill more orcs ... no wait that’s just an excuse to kill more orcs. The past goblin scenario preludes this madness that he has, shouldn’t he question what he kills? He didn’t, now what about these trolls, rats, bats? Aww, it’s already his nature.

Oh well I tried thinking what made him wrong, ah I see now, it’s his teacher fault?! No, it was his nature all along or what he thought he was or maybe, his desire for revenge made him this way.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Keeping bats alive, you need luck.
Bats are a bad match-up against trolls... Impact resistance of bats would most likely kill them when faced with enemies such as trolls.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No comment

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Malin died before he even reached his keep. Trolls killing Malin because I tried healing Malin using drain.
Cruduxy
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by Cruduxy »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.14.7 Evoker
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
One of the most interesting levels in the campaign for sure. All 3 parts are very good.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I only had 1 level 3 ghost and Mal for the final boss fight (basically had to hope my ghost and lich survive the first turn otherwise I lose). I have no idea if it was bugged but I read the scripts and it is supposed to either recall my 3 strongest ghost type units otherwise spawn a fresh ghost per missing one. Also a certain spider killed Mal first time he met it.
(
6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give Mal a unique dialogue when killing the super strong deadly spider.
Position the components for the puzzles in different spots since they are too obvious especially with the poems giving hints.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None. Beside a certain spider killing Mal since I ran away into the scorpions and a bat pinned him down for a turn to help the spider reach him.
Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.6, Summoner (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I like the 3 parts of the scenario.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Beating the 3rd part of the ritual and then the friggin 230hp Dragon without losing my nice units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats:
Spoiler:
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Mawmoocn
Posts: 154
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by Mawmoocn »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.14.13, Summoner (Difficult)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Well it's interesting except if you die too much....

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Killing the Dragon that I'll never be able to do quick without Konrad2's replay....
(because I died too much I didn't count)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

...................

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Died by official list:
  1. Dragon
  2. Walking Corpse
  3. Ghost/Wraith
  4. Skeleton/Skeleton Archer
  5. Flesh/Bone/Soul of Malin
  6. Giant Rat
  7. Giant Spider
  8. Blood Bat
  9. Fire Guardian
  10. ....many more
Err well most of it was unit swarm...

Thanks to Konrad2's replay for the amazing idea!

.... I never got random spawn besides Ghouls and Walking Corpse. It's not random spawn?

Ah oh because I died so much, I got to get few glitched games of Malin's Flesh not moving/spawning/appearing. It's probably fixed but I'll attach 1 save game out of 2 I have gotten.

Actually this also happens to Bones and Soul of Malin but didn't save that time, since it's very rare to happen.

Also you get upkeep here... which shouldn't happen?

This is the scenario that killed my bat only label It's fun though!
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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.16.6 Summoner (Challenging)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I liked it a lot. The first three parts where his internal journey through death to un-death is represented by a series of symbolic battles is really creative and dramatic. And I like how you can see him talk himself into giving up the last shreds of his humanity, refusing to acknowledge his own responsibility. Like I've said before, Malin is not at all a LIKEABLE protagonist, but he's uncomfortably RELATABLE, which makes for great tragedy.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The 'Malin's Soul' level 3 ghost battle was a nail biter every time and I honestly had to just restart until I got a little lucky. Taking out the dragon with a limited number of units and the super annoying respawning fire elementals was very tough too, I had to restart several times to get the right strategy.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. Very unorthodox level design, and really draws you into the story. I like how the mechanical and story elements work together here. Malin and Eidolon are basically bottomless pits of xp through the whole campaign, and I found myself worrying that I was dumping too much xp into them rather than spreading it around more to create a more well-rounded roster, but then this scenario really rewards you for making Malin into a one-man (later one-lich) killing machine, which fits well with the theme of his isolation.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I like it as is! With so few units on your side and such high-damage enemy units, its a little more luck dependent than I usually like in Wesnoth scenarios, but I see this scenario as basically an interactive cutscene/puzzle rather than a usual test of Wesnoth playing skill, so I didn't mind doing some save reloading when I got too unlucky.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Malin's Soul getting too lucky with its hits and killing Malin before I could do anything about it. I restarted the final battle with the dragon a few times to find the right approach that didn't end with me getting overwhelmed by all the fire elementals and losing my high level ghosts too quickly.
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JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 11 - Descent into Darkness

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Summoner / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear. Among other things, I found the puzzles in this one to be more enjoyable and less confusing compared to their equivalents in the earlier "Haunting in Winter" scenario, due to the poems giving you hints about how to proceed.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Really awesome overall. The way that the ritual is presented is innovative and compelling, and a lot of the dialogue (for example in the reflection pool) is brilliant. "No matter its faultlessness, logic could not have displaced the reality of your world."

The opening text says that Malin finds refuge in "a small cave," but by the end of the scenario it seems to be rather large. Perhaps change to something like "an isolated cave."

The sign talking about "Zephryn" and "Xanthric" was kind of weird; seems like an inside joke but it's way over my head. I think this aspect was made more awkward by Malin's comment that the name "sounds familiar." That leaves me wondering if I should know it somehow, or if it has some relationship to the story? Maybe instead he could say something like, "Hmmm. I wonder who that is?" or "It seems this cavern is not as uninhabited as I thought."

There's a monolith near the start of the "regaining strength" phase that gives the usual reflection message, but doesn't seem to provide any XP benefit like the previous ones. Not sure if this is intentional or not.
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Part of the challenge for me is that the scenario is so long and has multiple tenuous points where you can easily lose due to poor luck (the attack by Malin's soul, the regaining-strength phase, and the final boss). I don't like restarting in the middle of a scenario, so I ended up going back to the beginning and running through the whole thing multiple times, then getting killed at the very end. And since this is the main hero dying you can't just chalk it up to a lost unit and move forward; you have to reload in some fashion. Overall I liked the scenario, but repeatedly losing on turn 150+ was a bit frustrating. (Also, one time Malin succumbed to a rat, which left him very embarrassed.) I probably should have just made an exception here and not reloaded all the way back to the very start, but I do kind of wonder if maybe it's a bit too lengthy and difficult.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's a great scenario overall, so I wouldn't change much. Maybe consider tamping down the difficulty slightly in the final part. The focus here is narrative and exploration, so it might not need to be quite so challenging. Particularly near the start of the "regaining strength" phase, maybe remove some of the level 1 bats and replace them with level 0 enemies. The problem is that it's just so luck-dependent on whether or not you survive here. For the final boss, maybe consider something like increasing the respawn time of the Fire Guardians, so that they take another round or two to come back after dying.

Another possibility might be to divide this into two scenarios, ending after the "regaining strength" phase. So basically the boss fight becomes its own scenario and could even be expanded a bit.

The size of the dragon can create some problems, because it tends to obscure the surrounding tiles and the sense of unit locations. I lost one of my level 3s because the dragon was parked on top of it and I simply forget my unit was there and didn't move it back after being wounded. At the same time though, the dragon's size is kind of awesome so I'm not sure if I would want to change that. There's probably some way to better highlight units that get obscured, but not sure how much technical work that would take. The main issue is toward the top-right and especially top-left of the dragon, where the wing and status bar tend to create a lot of visual confusion. It gets somewhat better after the wing becomes skeletal.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

I was a bit conflicted about how to rate this campaign, because it has some elements that are just completely epically awesome, but other elements that are still glitchy and frustrating. The best parts are the overall story with its nuance and moral complexity, the final scenario concept, and the unique leveling system. A lot of the maps seem to have improved since the last time I played, with more interesting terrain and tactics and new "special objectives"; those changes seem generally great. On the downside though, the implementation of the leveling system has some confusing and frustrating aspects, some of the writing is not up to the story's overall standards, and there are numerous minor glitches, poorly placed objectives, confusing descriptions and events, confusing map clutter, etc. To avoid repetition I'll put the details of leveling issues etc. into the last scenario thread. Overall I'm going to give the campaign 5 out of 5 stars, because I think its awesomeness outweighs the lingering problems. But, it could definitely still benefit from patching up in places.
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