Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Feedback for the mainline campaign Descent into Darkness.

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czarkoff
Posts: 12
Joined: May 3rd, 2015, 5:39 am

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by czarkoff »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.12.2.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It is unclear where did Darken Volk get that army of his.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. I could have probably waited a bit to have Darken Volk's forces suicide into mages, but apparently sacrificing a single zombie was enough to complete the level without any meaningful losses.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1. No fun at all.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
As suggested before, I'd rather merge it with previous one. That said, during this scenario I levelled up two units, one of which helped me a lot in the future.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
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troomar
Posts: 8
Joined: January 17th, 2009, 10:45 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by troomar »

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Not really. Although I find this whole campaign really enjoyable and especially the character development element very interesting, this three-part storyline doesn't make much sense in some cases.

1) In Part I it is said that you have to sneak up to the chambers, because you cannot take over the whole town (or something like that), but I did! And according to posts in the topic of Part I many players did as well.
2) Ok, so I sneaked up / murdered everyone in the town and shut the trapdoor down behind me. It is then said that the shut trapdoor would prevent the army in the town to go after me. Well, if they don't have a necromancer in the town (I guess they don't :D) to raise all the corpses, I think I will be safe for some time.
3) Ok, then I slaughtered everyone in the chambers (Part II). It is not said anywhere but I suppose the underground part of the town does not spread any more widely than it is presented in the Part II. If there were an army hidden underground, the question is why they were not alarmed during the Part I.
4) Yay, I'm in the main chamber and then poof my master has just summoned a whole keep of an army. That's a bit weird, but you can play around it with the explanation that he just raised the corpses of the slaughtered men from previous chambers.
5) Then I got the book and had to leave the place. And again I had to flee, because hidden army was coming.

The main problem is that in Part I it is really hard to sneak up the army, but it's quite easy (even with minimum gold) to kill everyone. I had 4x lvl 3 Wraiths. I recalled them all and just went through the main gate. I killed around three waves of enemies and then approached the leader of the town. I killed him in two turns and he didn't call any troops (I'm not sure if he did before and just didn't have any gold anymore or if it was a bug - I played on the highest difficulty, version 1.13.6). The point is I didn't really tried to assassinate him, I just killed him because there wasn't anyone else around anymore.
Because it's much easier to kill everyone and many people do so, the plot in Part II and III makes little sense.

On the other hand I really like the opening of the Part III where you as an apprentice are showed with your little army standing next to your master with his army. And in the moment you realize you are not apprentice anymore. You are a grown necromancer.
Entengelaende
Posts: 16
Joined: June 3rd, 2014, 1:30 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by Entengelaende »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Hard, 1.12.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 1
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Okay
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? None
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 5
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? None
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? No
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Britannicus
Posts: 57
Joined: June 25th, 2017, 8:04 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by Britannicus »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging, Version 1.12.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. There were... what, 5 enemies on the whole map?

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear. Grab the book, then get out. It might help newer players to specify the book needs to be grabbed by Malin.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Some more dialog would be nice, maybe a little exchange when the book is found?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nothing.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Weakest scenario of the campaign, imo, it's just over so quickly.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Larger map, more enemies, maybe events? Someone trying to ambush you when you try to leave?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.
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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging, Version 1.14.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2. My army was overkill.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear. Wreak mayhem, take the book, run.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It was...fine.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Absent.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

3, not much to do.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I really have no idea.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- It's good. The search for book has been concluded and now what does that book do exactly? I still don't trust Darken Volk

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Get the book before Darken Volk does

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 4

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Again, make it once as a stealth scenario, not some hack-and-slash fest. Plus there should be some kind of specified guardian of that book. He could warn Malin Keshar the consequences of the book use

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No
Mawmoocn
Posts: 154
Joined: March 16th, 2019, 3:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by Mawmoocn »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Hard, Bat and loyal units only gameplay

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Dunno, it’s weird that you don’t get to see his units on the next scenario and how did he get his own units.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Letting Malin take the book and walk to the exit first and killing all enemies before your teacher’s units kills them.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No comment

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

When Malin got the book, his teacher immediately runs to the exit, it pissed me off, so I restarted to make Malin take the book and to be the one to reach the exit first! I manipulated my units to make his teacher to walk "slow".

This happen rarely, but if your allied unit places itself where the book is located, you won’t be able to get it and your ally won’t bother moving this unit away. This happens because once your enemy places itself near the book, your ally will attack and potentially position that unit where the book is.

I wanted my units to get experience so I restarted~.
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josteph
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by josteph »

Mawmoocn wrote: May 3rd, 2019, 11:54 pm This happen rarely, but if your allied unit places itself where the book is located, you won’t be able to get it and your ally won’t bother moving this unit away. This happens because once your enemy places itself near the book, your ally will attack and potentially position that unit where the book is.
Does this still happen in 1.14.7? If yes, could you submit an issue on github please?
Spoiler:
Mawmoocn
Posts: 154
Joined: March 16th, 2019, 3:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by Mawmoocn »

Not sure but I expect if this scenario didn't change and if all enemies are killed, AI actions will default to not moving units except his teacher (if you got the book).

It's quite rare since a player or your ally won't try to risk their units to position an enemy to that place.

I'll test once I am able to.
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josteph
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by josteph »

It's rare, but it has happened in the wild and when it happens it makes the scenario unwinnable, so it would be nice to fix it.

Thanks for being willing to test this when you'll have time.
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octalot
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by octalot »

There's no code in the scenario to prevent that yet. I'll take the task of fixing it.

To minimize the tomato surprise, if DV gets the book then I intend to add to the objectives:

Code: Select all

condition=lose
description= _ "Darken Volk reaches the tunnel before Malin does"
Edit: #4067
Konrad2
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Posts: 3333
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.6, Summoner (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7, because you have to rush after Darken Volk to make sure that he doesn't get himself killed.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear. Get the book and get out.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Likeable.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Rushing fast enough without just throwing my units away.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats:
Spoiler:
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Mawmoocn
Posts: 154
Joined: March 16th, 2019, 3:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by Mawmoocn »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.14.13, Summoner (Difficult)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Well losing turns is really interesting to see a new character dialogue... but then you lose :doh: ...
I also forgot to get all hidden easter eggs here.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
  • Keeping that Walking Corpse alive.
  • Using Malin's "master" units as a shield to Silver Mages and other Mages.
  • Killing Mages without any deaths.
  • Malin to get the book and escape first.
Trying to farm them all might also be here too.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

None

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
  • Malin's "master" units dies without killing anyone I need to be killed.
  • Red/White Mages on nearly all rooms.
  • Malin's "master" died when he had no units left.
  • Luring the Silver Mages efficiently.
  • Tried to keep Malin from killing anyone so I can save his level up in the next scenario. Failed because it's just too hard to kill Mages without any loss of units.
  • Not to use that Walking Corpse for any purpose.
  • Keeping the east gate closed near the escape route so I can keep that corpse alive and to stop my pursuers from reaching me quicker.
  • Dead bats.
Nice exp though!
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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.16.6 Summoner (Challenging)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. very easy with all the levelled troops from last level.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Again, filler, nothing new here.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
picking which units would tank initial attacks from mages, preventing losses.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. too easy and predictable.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The enemy units act in a very weird way. When you move into the range of one of them, it attacks you, but all the other ones just stand still. This makes even less sense in this small enclosed space than it did with the guards in the fog earlier. The enemy behavior would be both more reasonable and it would make the level more challenging if all the enemy units become mobile once you get into sight of one of them. Then it would be an intense battle to control the bottlenecks and minimize some inevitable losses against the mage swarm, rather than a simple xp-farming exercise of just moving a high-hp unit into range of a single mage, killing it with your favorite units the next turn, rinse and repeat.
Like the last scenario, there are all these interesting visual features all over the map, various pieces of equipment and architectural features and stuff, but none of it appears to do anything, which was disappointing. Having some of it trigger secret doors, or give buffs, or even release some experimental magical golems that attack everyone, would add more interest to this level.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, simple.
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JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 9 - A Small Favor - Part III

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Summoner / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
This is basically the same as the previous scenario (Small Favor Part 2). The overall objectives are clear, but there's a tremendous amount of map clutter that you can waste time investigating, and a lot of random things that don't make sense. Why is there a prominent, centrally located, empty, coffin down here? ("This coffin is empty," it tells me ... and, OK ...?) Is Lady Karae a secret vampire, or does she just throw crazy parties? Why do we need to "be careful around the urns?" (Hmmm.) Why are there "quite a few failed potions around here?" Plus a pile of armor that apparently no one can wear, a bunch of bottles of holy water that don't harm the undead, and assorted philosophical inscriptions scrawled onto the floor (in jagged, shaky handwriting I imagine). What the heck is going on in this manor?! The city guard would like to ask a few questions.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
See the previous paragraph.
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The fighting here is fairly easy; I found that one of the biggest challenges was keeping Darken from getting killed, because he presses forward so aggressively. You have to move quickly to draw the enemies away from him. The other thing is that if Darken gets the book, he immediately starts sprinting toward the exit. So if you're further away from the exit than he is at that point, you're out of luck. After losing that way a couple of times, I ultimately just sent a pile of units (mostly zombies) up there to clog up the exit early on so that he can't get through. Fortunately I had the spares to do that, and it made life a lot easier. Still, this scenario felt a bit awkward, and it might be better to remove that part about the race to the exit.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
This map feels almost like a repeat of the previous one. It's basically the same situation of exploring to find the object while having to hold off the city guards in the rear. And it has the exact same problems with clutter and unexplained happenings – with the additional race-to-the-exit where it's impossible to catch up if you start behind. I would suggest giving it some attention when possible, maybe by expanding it, or even just cutting it. Seems like it might be possible to merge this one with Small Favor Part 2 and not lose anything.

I had an error message pop up near the end of the scenario, repeated several times – "[random_placement] failed to place items." This didn't break the game or seem to cause any problems going forward. I'm guessing it was because the game was trying to put down more of the enemy guard units near the entrance and that area was already completely clogged with fighting.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

I was a bit conflicted about how to rate this campaign, because it has some elements that are just completely epically awesome, but other elements that are still glitchy and frustrating. The best parts are the overall story with its nuance and moral complexity, the final scenario concept, and the unique leveling system. A lot of the maps seem to have improved since the last time I played, with more interesting terrain and tactics and new "special objectives"; those changes seem generally great. On the downside though, the implementation of the leveling system has some confusing and frustrating aspects, some of the writing is not up to the story's overall standards, and there are numerous minor glitches, poorly placed objectives, confusing descriptions and events, confusing map clutter, etc. To avoid repetition I'll put the details of leveling issues etc. into the last scenario thread. Overall I'm going to give the campaign 5 out of 5 stars, because I think its awesomeness outweighs the lingering problems. But, it could definitely still benefit from patching up in places.
Last edited by JL42 on February 16th, 2024, 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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