Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Feedback for the mainline campaign Descent into Darkness.

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Konrad2
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Posts: 3333
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging, Version 1.14.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7, assasinating can go wrong easily.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Quite clear, but I only knew of this sister because I didn't recuirt WC in the first scenario.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Avoiding losses in the initial clash.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8. Very misguided actions.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

None. I'm not very creative.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Failing to assassinate Drogan.
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LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Pretty good. It was sad to see that Malin was acused for bringing in the orcs, but being forced to kill Drogan and run for his life after his sister Dela sets the manhunt on him, then we see that Malin has turned to the dark side at last

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Making sure that I don't kill anyone else but Drogan at first, then trying to avoid humans subduing me in the river while killing the orc warlord

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Similar how Drogan accuses Malin for bringing in the orcs, there could be a dialogue where Dela does the same, but Malin, despite fallen into necromancy, has enough compassion to say "No one will harm my sister, despite my sorrows how she feels about me now..."

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- None
LienRag
Posts: 127
Joined: September 24th, 2018, 4:03 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Post by LienRag »

No turn limit scenarios are a mistake if the very scenario is not the last one of the campaign: I was able to feed a Necrophage to 250 HP (and stopped only because it was too boring), which quites unbalances the following scenarios.
Mawmoocn
Posts: 154
Joined: March 16th, 2019, 3:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Post by Mawmoocn »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Hard, Bat and loyal units only gameplay

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2 to escape

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear? You could actually let orcs kill him though. Which I let them do since I don’t want to tarnish myself with his blood.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Not interesting in my opinion. I only used bats, imagine my shock when a ghost was summoned for my own destiny, which made me dispassionate on continuing playing the campaign.

I played bats only because I wrongly assumed that it is possible to change his predetermined fate.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I tried killing nothing well since I thought it does something to the storyline.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

3

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?



(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Trying to cross the bridge without loss of units. I was able to do it with correctly luring the AI to attack bats.
Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3333
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.6, Summoner (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8, if you want all the special events on the map.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I like it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Splitting my attention and troops between both enemies.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats:
'Failed' attempt (I couldn't bear Drogans death)
Spoiler:
Success
Spoiler:
Attachments
2020-11-19, DiD6 (2).png
DiD-Return to Parthyn replay 20201118-235343.gz
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Mawmoocn
Posts: 154
Joined: March 16th, 2019, 3:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Post by Mawmoocn »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.14.13, Sumonner (Difficult)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7
Spoiler:
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Malin have no reason to kill Drogan.
He can just kill all Orcs outside of Parthyn and while he can't enter, he can still "unnoficially" meet with his sister.

Anyways, Malin is either too bloodthirsty to think or he got corrupted somehow.

It's nice that Drogan became human and not too bloodthirsty against Malin.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Trying to maximize gold.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

A way for a new path?
Like not kill them?
Or Malin use his brain?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
  • Malin dissapeared on map coordinates 30,4 when the Orc leader shows up. (Actually other units dissapear too if they are at that position.)
    I figured that you need to wait for long to get gold so that too.
  • I don't kill the Orc leader in 3 turns.
  • Any Dread or Blood Bat deaths.
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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.16.6 Summoner (Challenging)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. But I played for minimal conflict.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear, though obviously there's a twist in the middle.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I love it. I think all 3 of these characters are written so well, you can see all of their perspectives and sympathize with all of them to some degree, and you can also see the ways that all of them are flawed and they all miss opportunities to reach a better outcome. I especially like how Malin's progressive desensitization/corruption is portrayed, like he genuinely believed that if he just murdered Drogan his sister would suddenly thank him and be on his side, while she has the ordinary human reaction to seeing her friend get slaughtered, even if he was being stubborn and bossy at the moment. It's clear that Malin would not have considered cold blooded murder as a valid conflict resolution strategy at the beginning of the campaign, but his values have shifted so gradually that he rationalizes the choice now and doesn't realize how far he's fallen. This is solid tragedy.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out the behavior of the AI loyalists. They would jump into the water to attack Malin, but not ghosts, which is counterintuitive and I had to figure out experimentally.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
In terms of actual gameplay, 3. The dialogue is absolutely fantastic, but the gameplay itself is not that challenging, since you have a clear 'escape route' to the west of the mountains and can just flee while the orcs are distracted with the loyalists. And I came into this scenario with such an absurd amount of carryover gold that I wanted to preserve it for the next scenario rather than spending it all on this avoidable fight.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe removing the option to just flee, forcing the player to fight the orc leader? The last scenario is structured in such a way that you have to finish it very quickly by rushing the enemy leaders or you won't finish it at all, which means players will always come into this scenario with a preposterous amount of gold, and therefore a vested interest in minimizing their recruitment here if they can. I haven't played the next scenario yet, but I wonder if my 153 carryover gold from this scenario will unbalance it?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, easy.
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JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 6 - Return to Parthyn

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Summoner / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Mostly clear. I like how the dialogue helps to explain the main objectives and the logic behind them (why you should not kill the townspeople etc.).

However, this scenario is particularly bad in setting up the "special objectives" (book, monolith). Again these are not mentioned, labeled, or explained in any way. The monoliths seem to randomly disappear or change locations, without rhyme or reason. On top of that, it's impossible to reach the objectives in the south without wreaking massive slaughter on the villagers, which would be extremely out of character for Malin ("I've no wish to fight the townsfolk ... I guess I should just leave.") Unless you want to completely go outside the story's logic then you have to skip those objectives, which is frustrating. I would suggest moving them up to the northwest somewhere, or deleting them completely.

And why the heck do the monoliths disappear and move around? What's the story/reasoning behind that? It's kind of frustrating if you were planning when to visit and then suddenly it's just gone. This happened to me because I was planning for Malin to visit the north-central monolith on his way back up after killing Drogan, but before I could get there that monolith just disappeared, or moved down south.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
More "dialect" from Drogan here, ugh. At least he gets what's coming to him. I think it's adorable that Malin can convert him into his true form – but I just left his corpse there because I was afraid he would open his mouth again. Overall the story is awesome, but I found this aspect of the writing to be an irritation.

Malin also has a miswritten dialogue line when talking to Dala after killing Drogan – "Never mind that he be your own brother." Totally out of synch with the way he normally talks.

Dala comes across as a total basket case, but I guess that is her character. Seems like she should at least have a moment of hesitation when she sees that Malin actually did save the town (again) and then left without hurting anyone who didn't attack him.

At the end of the scenario, Malin discusses more about how he was expelled from the mage Academy due to playing with curses. This seems like a phenomenally short-sighted way for the mages to behave. (Oh, we've got a kid here who's experimenting with dark magic. Let's kick him out and send him back to his village, what could go wrong? Guess then it will be someone else's problem.) Unlike the local villagers, perhaps, the mages should know better. Dealing with this stuff is their freakin' job. And if they actually think Malin is a potential danger, then kicking him out and leaving him to his own devices is the very last thing they should do. Anyway, it seems like this dialogue would be a good place to highlight it; Malin could say something like, "How am I supposed to learn when no one will teach me?"
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The main challenge here is to pull Drogan out of his fort and kill him quickly, without getting caught up in fighting the townsfolk. As long as you don't move your forces too far south then it's quite easy to assassinate the orc leader or flee.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The combat here is a bit blah, especially since you can just assassinate the orc leader before he even recruits (or just flee to the northwest). But that's not a huge deal because the scenario's real focus is advancing the story. I would suggest revising the "special objectives" and maybe polish some of the dialogue, as discussed above.

The option to flee without fighting the orcs seems a bit odd, since Malin's been chasing them all across the northlands and his whole reason for being here is to fight them. This doesn't seem needed for gameplay either, because it's fairly easy to defeat the orc leader.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

I was a bit conflicted about how to rate this campaign, because it has some elements that are just completely epically awesome, but other elements that are still glitchy and frustrating. The best parts are the overall story with its nuance and moral complexity, the final scenario concept, and the unique leveling system. A lot of the maps seem to have improved since the last time I played, with more interesting terrain and tactics and new "special objectives"; those changes seem generally great. On the downside though, the implementation of the leveling system has some confusing and frustrating aspects, some of the writing is not up to the story's overall standards, and there are numerous minor glitches, poorly placed objectives, confusing descriptions and events, confusing map clutter, etc. To avoid repetition I'll put the details of leveling issues etc. into the last scenario thread. Overall I'm going to give the campaign 5 out of 5 stars, because I think its awesomeness outweighs the lingering problems. But, it could definitely still benefit from patching up in places.
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