Scenario Review: SotBE 15 - Civil War

Feedback for the mainline campaign Son of the Black Eye.

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shadow12
Posts: 98
Joined: November 6th, 2015, 1:06 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 15 - Civil War

Post by shadow12 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (easiest), Wesnoth 1.10.5, iOS app ver 1.0.4
Ended on turn 22/40, Starting gold 1007, Finishing gold 347, Carry over gold 417
Losses 10, kills 50.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 9
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear.
Note that In this scenario, the upkeep cost for each unit is decreased by 1.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
At first I was puzzled why Kapou'e didn't try negotiating with these orcs first, I thought he wanted to prevent orcish infighting. Although his tactics might seem undiplomatic, I understand why he wanted to quickly eliminate any disloyalty and squash any uprisings before things got even more out of hand. And he was furious at Smug and the other traitors for making him look like a fool... and for making popsicles out of the Shamen. :shock:

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
My biggest challenge was figuring out how many units I needed, what types, and where to send them. To start with I recalled all of my veterans (about 25). Then I recruited a mix of units.

I sent a large team to the southeast. However, by the time they got past the mountain range, only a few enemy units remained. This was because both of the southern kings sent most of their troops to the northwest, presumably to stop Kapou'e from getting to the signpost. I think that it would have been better to send a few Direwolves and wolf riders over the mountains, instead of sending a large team.

The snow created a new dynamic for the game. In this scenario there were a number of skirmishes happening all around the map, so I had to have a strategy different from what I normally use (big battles). Setting up offensive formations and defensive lines was difficult, sometimes impossible, as most of the fighting occurred on or adjacent to the dirt roads. The snow and mountains slowed down reinforcements. Knowing that reinforcements would not arrive quickly, each units's strengths and weaknesses became even more vital to the outcome of each battle.

Admittedly it often felt tedious moving units across the snow. But one advantage was that it made it difficult to be ambushed.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. I enjoyed the scenario, the snow made me think of new ways to strategize.

The map was really well designed with bridges, lakes, roads, forests, high mountains, deep valleys, etc. I would love to revisit this map in a summertime setting!

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Additional roads going north and south.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I was tempted to restart when I saw that I had too many units the southeast, but I finished it and everything worked out ok.
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.
sine_nomine
Posts: 39
Joined: April 30th, 2016, 11:34 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 15 - Civil War

Post by sine_nomine »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare 1.12.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9
395 starting gold

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Surprisingly not as difficult as it appeared despite my low carryover gold (seems the starting gold has been increased since prior reviews). I recalled a ton of units from the start so I could quickly overpower the closest enemy leader and so I could kill enemy units before they all piled up and I was able to secure advantageous terrain during the battle. The downside is that I went so deeply negative in gold that I had no chance of a carryover bonus. As a result, I decided to take my time making it to the end (and still had some time to spare). I suspect this scenario would be doable with some more level 1s than I used, and I could have visited a couple more villages, so a gold bonus is attainable.
It's also quite important to heal as much as possible through soothsayer(s) and levelling, as you will take lots of damage even with the terrain advantage.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9
The major engagement is fun but killing defenseless leaders and walking to the signpost isn't so interesting.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
You could try radically changing the scenario by having orcs oppose eachother or something but I think this scenario is quite fun as is.
Another possibility is to have a leader's troops disappear if you kill the leader because they surrender to you or whatever (and indicate that in the dialogue), making it more feasible to split your forces and assassinate the leaders.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
One trial run to get an idea how the enemies would converge and where I should position my units, plus one more restart due to dumb mistakes.
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LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 15 - Civil War

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Pretty much clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- The idea of orc rebels is a very good move and knowing Shan Taum could be behind the betrayal of the Horde, shows how there's that someone who'll do it for the power

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Surviving orcs during the night, making sure I was not in unfavorable terrain

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- If this is civil war, how about all orcish rebels fight each other and have Kapou'e kill their leaders, thus taking the control of the remaining orcs of these tribes

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No
KK188
Posts: 6
Joined: January 8th, 2019, 2:46 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 15 - Civil War

Post by KK188 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Version 1.14.9, Difficulty:Warrior(Difficult) and Warlord(Nightmare), Starting gold 406
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)?
9/10 for Warlord, 8/10 for warrior
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and story line of the scenario?
Meh, it's the usual
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
As there's snow everywhere, with limited terrain of good defense, it is extremely hard to keep my army alive whilst being outnumbered by alot. You have to squeeze every little advantage and good terrain you get to win.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, A good scenario. Requires good tactics and correct recruitment. Trolls are essential here. The main battle's brutal and fun, but killing defenseless leaders was lame.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Add more villages and increase turn limit by 5 turns but make the ending more interesting. This is to ensure that acquiring carry over is possible here and more fun.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Losing my Gruu. I overestimated his durability.
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max_torch
Inactive Developer
Posts: 414
Joined: July 31st, 2011, 5:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 15 - Civil War

Post by max_torch »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Version 1.14.17, Warlord(Nightmare), 350 + 80 = 420 starting gold, no reloading turns

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)?
Only 5. Well, maybe because of my recall list? I won in my first full attempt. I know some other posts marked this as very high difficulty.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and story line of the scenario?
Dialog is just average.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. At first I was quite intimidated. A huge map size? Four leaders? Kapou'e has to be at the signpost? But I was lucky enough to get it right the first time.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Improve the dialog somehow.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

None
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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 15 - Civil War

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nighmare 1.16.6 459 starting gold
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 to win with some decent carryover gold. Very easy to go into the red here.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
very. I like Gruu's cheerful bloodthirstiness as always, and the idea that Kapoue has TRIED to be a progressive orcish leader by using the shaman system, but now he has to do it the orcish 'old fashioned way', i.e. by just beating up everyone who disagrees with him.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
upkeep and recall management. This is one of those scenarios where your recruit/recall decisions in the first 3 turns are MASSIVELY important to whether you win, and where it's very possible to win a pyrrhic victory where you're so broke that the next scenario is impossible, but you often don't realize your recruit/recall choices were incorrect until turn 10-15 and then you have to restart from the beginning.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. I actually started getting worried midway through the campaign, because I was accumulating SO MANY lvl 3 units, especially Great Trolls, that I was afraid the later campaign was going to become a cakewalk, or just very repetitive as my swarm of super-elite soldiers massacred whoever was in front of them. But the Great Horde bonus and the big levels full of difficult terrain guide the player toward focusing much more on optimally using their lower level units. I played the last several scenarios with almost no lvl 3's at all. Then THIS level made me reconsider again. I kept trying every way I could to beat it with a swarm of mostly lvl 1, finally realized I couldn't, then switched to a sledgehammer of all lvl 3s, won easily but with zero carryover gold and therefore in terrible position for the next scenario, and then had to really think hard about all of my recruitment decisions, the merits of each unit, the way they worked together, etc, to craft just the right mix of units to win quickly and decisively, but still with significant carryover gold. I think that this level strikes the perfect balance between frustration and reward, and introduces surprisingly fresh tactics for the 15th scenario of a campaign, without introducing any new enemies or allies.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I like the idea of a 'big stick diplomacy' mechanic, which seems very appropriate for an orcish civil war, where when you kill a leader you gain control of their remaining units. With all the difficult terrain and the AI's laser-focus on Kapoue, this would introduce some interesting tactical approaches that focus more heavily on mobility and misdirection and less on brute force. You could lower the starting gold to compensate. On the other hand, I honestly think the scenario is already really tactically interesting as is.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I restarted MANY times on this level. I just flat out lost several times when I was trying to be too stingy and recruit almost no lvl 3's like I had on the other Great Horde levels. Then I 'won' by recruiting ALL my lvl 3's, but the upkeep killed my carryover gold. Then I finally figured out a good compromise and finished with 56 carryover gold, which I hope will be enough for the next scenario.
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