[Historical] Scenario Review - EI 2 - The Escape Tunnel

Feedback for the mainline campaign Eastern Invasion.

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line
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Joined: January 11th, 2012, 9:21 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: The Escape Tunnel

Post by line »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.6, hard
100 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9. Trying to hold steady between the undead and the trolls was major task. Also finding the right moment to start Gweddry heading for the exit (as Dacyn admits not to have details on the tunnels). Very few starting gold, as I maxed out the outpost for getting XP.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Winning conditions should be more precise - reach the exit with Gweddry! I had to learn that a quick mage is not sufficient.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Well, Dacyn made us to go underground. Now that we are in, he comes up with having no clue on which way to go. Therefore the earlier scenario should put more pressure on escaping in the tunnel as the only alternative, e.g. with a big army of undead that reinforces them in the end. Otherwise I'm questioning myself why the hell we went down here, as the undead at the outpost were nearly wiped out - and fleeing to the west would have been more than possible.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
If you don't run - see above.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. There seems to be no chance, to clear the level at the first try. If you choose to run, you have to learn to go south (ok, that might occur). If u choose to make a stand at the crossing, learn to send Gweddry! (see 3) not too late to make it in time (and send someone else to get the troll's gold).

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make clear Gweddry himself has to make it to the exit.
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line
Posts: 94
Joined: January 11th, 2012, 9:21 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: The Escape Tunnel

Post by line »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.14, hard
127 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6-7. As said in the wiki the carryover of 40% gold is added to the starting gold. So you're not limited to 5 recalls. That allows you to rotate wounded units and therefore helps a lot.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. Gweddry must reach the end of the tunnel (thanks for specifying the mission objective).

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I don't mind leaving the dwarfs behind in the tunnel. It fits to their typical behaviour to overrate the own strength and also this tunnel is their home. They'd rather die in battle defending their ground than to flee.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
If you make use of the undead and trolls fighting themselves (or let's say they simply attack everyone) it's possible to hold off both of them while moving along the tunnel in an orderly way keeping good formation (in opposite to just running for your life). Even more than in the former scenario there is a big difference in bringing fearless troops with you (especially if you were able to upgrade your fearless HI to ST). Given these circumstances fending off the undead and trolls is not too hard, but at the other side some trolls occured to jump in Gweddry's way to the exit, so you have to move some escort with him.
Another goal is to collect the XP of the undead lvl 2 troopers.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
If you are familiar with the tunnel network and brought some fearless HI/ST with you into the tunnel: 6-7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe the first dwarf could explain, that they live in the southern tunnel and the trolls occupy the northern one. I admit it is quite obvious as the dwarfs come out the southern tunnel and the trolls pop out of the northern one. At least a hint would be nice, that both tunnels reunite in the east, so you know that you don't necessarily have to fight your way through the trolls.
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Ninjuri
Posts: 167
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: The Escape Tunnel

Post by Ninjuri »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
perfect
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was pretty good,
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting to the end in time. Trolls are literally thee last army you want to have to get through, because of their regen. Also the dwarves that were helping me took it upon themselves to take up the front line against the trolls, blocking my units with higher damage potential from getting in and doing some damage. Then when the dwarves were at lower health, they just stood there instead of sacrificing themselves to do a few last hits. On the trolls turn, they healed and then killed the dwarves in 1 hit anyway, so that was counter-productive.

Keeping the undead at bay was pretty easy, i just send 2 units to block the narrow part of the cave to the west, and had them stand there backed by the white mage. I had 3 more units behind him, and each turn i would rotate them around the mage, so i'd always have a fresh guy in the front. The only threat of defeat i had was not making it to the end in time, i made it on the very last turn. I discovered the troll stash but wasn't able to actually see what was in there before i had to go.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Widen the opening to the troll base a little, or make the dwarves learn that trying to preserve life against trolls by not attacking will not get them anywhere, especially when time is of the essence.
Fate is against me.
SBak
Posts: 78
Joined: October 8th, 2011, 1:36 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI: The Escape Tunnel

Post by SBak »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy and medium 1.8.5 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3-4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Well if you're forced into a tunnel chased by undead behind you it's pretty much a no brainer that you want to come out the other side. We are not dealing with rabbits here.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It didn't make much sense to be honest. Gweddry is a sergeant at this Eastern Outpost, he can't deal with the Undead but what's more he's not just failed to notice a trapdoor but also he's unaware of a tunnel underneath the outpost and he's also unaware that there's Trolls in it together with Dwarves (who don't get on). Even if it is undergound I'm pretty sure these two sides would have been noticeable given the fact that one side likes using axes and hammers and the other uses clubs and enjoys smacking things.

But then maybe only Dacyn knew about the tunnel, and here you have to wonder how come a Mage knows about a tunnel underneath an outpost but the army doesn't.

Also it's strange that the Troll's treasure is left unguarded but announced by a sign, and the Dwarves haven't touched it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Haviog Gweddry pick up the Holy Amulet without too many getting either battered to death by Trolls or hacked to pieces by psychotic Revenants. Heavy Infantry here are useful as is the little choke point by the Dwarvish keep.

Also how come quite often you get Trolls coming out the other side and bashing you on Easy but you don't on Medium? On Medium I even had an additional White Mage and Spearman ready and waiting but no. Nothing. Not a sausage.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - actually I quite enjoy this scenario.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'd make the tunnel a bit longer and have the Troll keep somewhere in the middle.
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flammstrudel
Posts: 74
Joined: April 13th, 2013, 9:08 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: The Escape Tunnel

Post by flammstrudel »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.10.3 hard (Challenging - Royal Guard)
156 gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9.5 I must be doing something wrong.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Everything. Getting the amulet without losing your newly enhanced unit is hard, because usually it gets trapped in the northern cave. Getting your hero to the exit is difficult, especially if there are 3+ trolls in the southern corridor. The allied AI is (as always) a liability: often the dwarfen king refuses to attack approaching trolls and chooses to linger around. Sure, once you have your troops holding a bottleneck and backed by a healer nothing will break through, but getting there without being torn to shreds was not easy. And finally: the turn limit is pretty tight. Took me several attempts, a good portion of luck and in the end I resorted to save-reload: I thought the exit was in the cave next to the signpost. Instead Gweddry discovered a heap of gold (good) and a mean looking wraith on his way out (not so good). I restarted the turn and went north immediately.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Didn't like. But seeing that I am an extreme deviation I won't give it a bad rating.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Just one change: show me where the exit is. The dwarfs gotta know this anyway. Getting trapped near the treasure was frustrating.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I mentioned them above.
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Inky
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: The Escape Tunnel

Post by Inky »

(1) Level and version? Hard, 1.12.4, 232 starting gold, finish turn 16/22
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 8
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Fine.
(5) Challenges? Delaying the undead
(6) Fun? (1-10) 8
(7) Changes? -
(8) Restarts? Several to beginning - I kept getting trapped in the lower tunnel because the ghosts would arrive in front of me and block the exit. In order to make it in time you must send Gweddry down the south tunnel ASAP, and recruit several sacrificial heavy infantrymen to block the entrance chokepoint for as long as possible.

I give Gweddry the holy amulet because he really needs it to help him do damage and level, and it also helps significantly in Mal Ravanal's capital.
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LordWolfDan
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Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI 2 - The Escape Tunnel

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- More clear than the previous one. Just escape and harvest the XP on trolls, don't bother wasting time on undead unless you want to level up mages

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Quite interesting. Dacyn is still being secretive about the fear and while unexpected to see dwarves south of Great River, they were certainly welcome. Plus I love how trolls left their gibberish message behind.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Making sure to keep my units alive (lost two heavy infantrymen)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Make it that while the dwarwish ally is still declining the offer to join you, to at least provide you with at least one loyal dwarwish unit (fighter, guardsman or even scout)
Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review - EI 2 - The Escape Tunnel

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.14.5 Hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice enough.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting past the ghosts that removed the trolls.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
-

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
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Xindage
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Location: Brazil

Re: Scenario Review - EI 2 - The Escape Tunnel

Post by Xindage »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.15.7, Normal (Normal - Swordsman)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
easy to understand.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Slight weak, but ok for the scenario.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Blocking the ghosts that killed the troll leader.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2. This scenario is annoying.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it wider and big, right now it's too tight and the undead forces are overwhelming.
And the allied forces should be useful too, on my last attempt they were slight useful than before, they delayed the undeads very effectively, probably luck again.
Another thing. The enemy leader who follow us should be one of the surviving undeads not?
Note: I've restarted so much times.

(8) About the replay.
Not much to say.
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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI 2 - The Escape Tunnel

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.16.6 Difficult Royal Guard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 to just rush through via the dwarf tunnel, 6 to take out troll leader
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear.
Gweddry still doesn't have much personality. He just asks obvious questions and follows Dacyn around.

At the start, Dacyn says "this is an old escape route for the outpost". It's a little confusing that Dacyn was the military commander of the outpost, but neither Dacyn nor anyone else would tell him about the escape tunnel up to that point, especially since it seems like it would have allowed trolls or dwarves to attack the outpost from below if it wasn't guarded. According to the campaign intro dialogue, this fort had been abandoned for some time and only recently re-commissioned, so it would be plausible that this old escape tunnel was forgotten or magically sealed years ago or something like that, until Dacyn rediscovered it in his desperation to get away from Mal Ravanal (this would explain what he was doing during the last scenario when he disappeared), but it would be nice if this was made explicit in the dialogue here. This would also be a good opportunity to give Gweddry some backbone, as he could first angrily confront Dacyn for his 'cowardice' in the last battle, and then Dacyn could explain that he realized Mal Ravanal was too strong to fight head on and he went to magically search for the escape route.

Early in the scenario, Dacyn says, "our only hope is to head north".When the undead show up, Dacyn says, "They follow us... we must escape through this tunnel. That is unfortunate, for it will take us into the Estmark hills, beyond the borders of Wesnoth. But it is our only option.". This makes it sound like he was originally planning to somehow head north instead of following the tunnel, but then the arrival of the undead made him change his plans and head east through the tunnel instead. But he's already in the tunnel when he says both of these things, and the tunnel clearly has only one entrance and one exit, to the east. Was Dacyn's original plan to just hang out near the trap door until the undead slaughtered everyone above and moved on, then resurface and head north? This could be made clearer.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting through the troll bottleneck before the undead caught up, not losing key units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. I like that you have different options of routes through the tunnel system, and figuring out how to break through the troll bottleneck ASAP without losing key units is an interesting challenge. Most players will come into this with their strongest units being HI and shocktroopers, which are so overpowering against undead, but much less so against trolls underground. I like that the amulet applies to both melee and ranged attacks, and the peeks at further eastern parts of the tunnel, which were not present the last time I played this.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

The dialogue changes I listed in (4).
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Xindage
Posts: 28
Joined: August 2nd, 2018, 12:56 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Scenario Review - EI 2 - The Escape Tunnel

Post by Xindage »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.18.0 - Incursion - Biased RNG
146 Starting Gold.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 This was very easy.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
It is clear, no issues here.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Seems kinda of acceptable, since we are in rush to escape I can agree with Dacyn pov.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nothing.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 1 Bonus point for the surprise undead pursuit.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think its good as it is now, see 8.
(8) Replay/Other notes.
Ok taking as base my previous review of the old version this one seems better, it's not frustrating like it was previously so its a big plus.
Also dealing with the troll could be a little dangerous but mages just melt him, i think that is what makes it easy at the most.
This replay has a major restart at the last turn, because I was dump and I forget to take both the collectibles.
Also ignore the fact of my suicide HI against the undead, I thought I could "delay" they from progressing inside, heh that back fired completely, RIP Tiran.
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