Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Feedback for the mainline campaign Liberty.

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Inky
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by Inky »

shadow12 wrote:Harper's larger range of site into the fog was a hinderance, it just alerted the enemy.
The idea of this scenario is to use Harper to scout the way for Baldras. Whether or not you're spotted depends on the enemies' sight ranges, not your own. If you made it through with Baldras, you should have had no problem having Harper follow the same route.

Use ctrl + B to show the enemy movement ranges and remember that their sight range is one hex further than their movement range.

Hope this helps!
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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by shadow12 »

Inky wrote:
shadow12 wrote:Harper's larger range of site into the fog was a hinderance, it just alerted the enemy.
The idea of this scenario is to use Harper to scout the way for Baldras. Whether or not you're spotted depends on the enemies' sight ranges, not your own. If you made it through with Baldras, you should have had no problem having Harper follow the same route.

Use ctrl + B to show the enemy movement ranges and remember that their sight range is one hex further than their movement range.

Hope this helps!
Yes, thank you for the reply! It was very helpful.

You are correct that the dialog says to move the younger Harper ahead to scout, but you don't really have to do anything with him. When Harper moves to the signpost, Hans tells him "You can come if you wish, but the leader is only interested in speaking to Baldras." It didn't work for me to have them follow the same path. One time Harper stopped on a hex and was ok, but Baldras couldn't stop behind him or beside him because he would be in an enemy's sight range so he went east and got on a different route. Sometimes Harper could get past an enemy sight range with 7 moves, but Baldras couldn't move as far (5) and would have to find a different path to get through. Maybe I was doing something wrong, but for me it was easier to leave Harper behind.

I can't do ctrl+b because I'm using iOS. But the enemy's movement range shows when I highlight an individual. Is that the same as ctrl+b in windows? I am still learning all this stuff ...

Edit: (also made some changes to the paragraph above).
I just replayed it and now I see what you are saying about the enemy's sight range triggering the attack, just like (duh) in all the other scenarios. I was wrong thinking it was my movement range triggering it. For some reason, I thought it was like they were asleep and they awoke when our range hit them. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
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tr0ll
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by tr0ll »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.13.6 normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

very

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

clear but silent

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

none

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

3 it is a maze scenario

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

add a wandering patrol

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

no
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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.14.0, Difficult

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Pretty much.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Interesting and clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

-

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4, because there is only one viable route. It's a unique concept, but it's a bad maze.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Make the patrols move a bit.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Accidentally being discovered when I didn't pay attention.
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LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Beginner

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear, get to the signpost on SE

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Very good. Baldras and Harper's uncle-nephew relationship really stands out how good it is

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Trying to avoid being seen by guards. I had to kill two iron maulers who were on my way (ended up leveling Harper to fugitive)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 10

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- I like it the way it stands

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by YanTanTethera »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficult, version 1.14.5.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. Once you understood the mechanics, it is rather easy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Relatively clear, although “(Move Baldras to the Signpost in the south-east)” might be added.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I found them interesting and clear. I like the mocking way the thieves speak and regard Baldras as one of their ranks.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Staying alert. At the eastern edge of the map Baldras got sighted by an enemy soldier and he and Harper had to make a bolt for it.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3, although it adds a nice variety to the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe add a little fight, that does not cause the whole brigade at once to chase the two main characters.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
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octalot
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by octalot »

(1) pre-1.15 (80d3e93d2b), beginner (doing a play-through with no recalls and only minimum starting gold)
There was a guard on 27,39, so this was with guard_locs option c.

(2), (3) and (5) I understood the task to be staying out of the guards' vision range at all times, which turned out to be impossible. The mechanics are to be out of the guards' vision during the guards' turn, they don't notice you while you're running on your own turn.

(4) I regard this scenario as a plot set-up for the Grey Woods scenario, I think it's good for the storyline but didn't pay attention to the story dialogue in this one.

(6) When there's a clear path, 7. When confused by the objectives, 1.

(7) Either add a hint that the guards aren't paying attention during your own turns, or ensure that there's a clear path. Having looked at the WML and found that the randomness is limited to three predefined sets of locations, and all of them have a section where you have to run through the guards' vision.

Although there's a hint about working out the vision range from the movement range, there's no hint that it's easy to find out the enemy movement ranges. Maybe we should also hint about the existence of the "show enemy moves" menu option.

(8) Got sidetracked in to finding out whether the guard placement was different in 1.15 compared to 1.14 :lol:
Zrevnur
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by Zrevnur »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.14.9, Fugitive (Difficult) (in Ironman mode), played several times
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10. This is relative to the other scenarios in the campaign. The campaign is too easy IMO. This scenario isnt really hard either but requires flawless play. A single misclick has a high chance to cause a loss.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
So so.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I think the rules should be made crystal clear: Its ok to move into enemy sight as long as I am not in enemy sight at the end of the turn. And its ok to take a village. A human player could notice a village being taken - due to loss of gold income or it being visible on the map.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not misclicking.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1. I dont like this scenario.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Its simply some other kind of game than normal BfW. I dont think this can be fixed with mere changes.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, I played the campaign without reloading and scenario restarting.
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IceTyp
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by IceTyp »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Fugitive (Difficult), 1.15.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1, If you follow the obvious route with Harper, then there is absolutely no challenge in beating this scenario.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I had no major challenges.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would appreciate some kind of alternative objective. There could be a key lying somewhere on the ground and Harper could use this key to enter a special place. This placed should be guarded and there could be gold or a special item like it is in the first scenario.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.5, Outlaw (Normal), 1.15.6, Fugitve (Hard)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

1, you either avoid any mistake or you die.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Pretty clear, but I fogot inbetween that Baldras has to arrive, not Harper.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Like, not getting found?

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8, it's unique. And it's nice that there are multiple routes.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

I'm going to spare you the scenario stats this time.
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:54 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. Normal (the middle one), Wesnoth 1.15.11+dev
2. 9/10 (this is actually an unique scenario)
3. 10/10
4. It was cool. Sneaking my way through a city without a single guard noticing. :twisted:
5. The challenge was finding a path where the 5 MP Baldras could be moved through without alerting the guards. I usually followed the same route but noticed that it was changed in this version so I had to reload to start to rethink my approach.
6. 9/10
7. Even prevent the part where you can actually "milk" this level for XP by hitting the level 3 isolated ones with Baldras level 3 and then get the XP for Harper. You can do this like 2-3 times before the entire side starts the slow rush at you. I got Harper to level 3 that way.
8. Yes, it was to rethink my strategy as the "always-constant-path" was different this time. Maybe it could be a different path each time? That would be nice.
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Remellion
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by Remellion »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.15.14, Outlaw (Normal). Also sometime back in 1.12 or something.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8/10 - the difficulty is clearly not in combat though.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear enough. Get to the signpost. If Harper makes it, Hans asks for Baldras to come.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, and exciting - something different from the usual fighting and fighting. I do wonder how our recruit and recall lists managed to sneak through with us, but that's not really relevant.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out which openings Baldras could make it through, especially given his 5 movement points and forest everywhere. If you don't know about ctrl-v and ctrl-b, now is the time to learn.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8/10. Stealth!

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
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