Unit Types

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Ashmyr
Posts: 72
Joined: January 26th, 2021, 6:10 pm
Location: Western United States

Unit Types

Post by Ashmyr »

Hello. For a couple years I've been thinking about how I sort units in Wesnoth, and I've come up with descriptions for each category of unit I have thought of. Generally, I tend to sort units in these categories by attacks and usage, though the rules are not the most strict. I often end up with multi class units with these categories, and units that only partially fit in a category.

I'm honestly unsure how to sort the Ulfserker, it's a very unique unit.


Myrian's Wesnoth Unit Types

I sort units into these classes, some units are multiclass such as the Dwarvish Fighter.

1. Basic Combat: These units can generally be used in most situations, and are reliable for combat. These should make up the bulk of any army, and most armies, recruit lists or factions have at least 2 of these. They typically have average health and 5mp, with next to no resist.

1a. Fighter: These are basic melee units who deal blade damage -- the most basic of all unit types. Most factions have one, and they typically have three strikes. They have a weak ranged attack or no ranged attack.
1b. Spearman: These are basic melee units who deal pierce damage. They are better at fighting Drakes but worse at fighting Undead. They typically have three strikes, can have Firststrike, and their advancements never have more than three melee strikes. They have a weak ranged attack or no ranged attack.
1c. Bowman: These are basic ranged units with generally three ranged pierce strikes. They often have less health than the Fighter. They have a weak melee attack.
1d. Mixed: These units typically have a weak melee and a weak ranged attack, generally with the melee being blade and the ranged being pierce or blade, with three strikes of each.

2. Support: These units often are not great at handling fighting alone and often take a secondary role in fighting. They are specialized, with a specific usage or enemy they are good at.

2a. Tank: These units typically have 2 impact strikes and bad defense. They're good against undead but are vulnerable to ranged attacks. However, not all Tanks are undead tanks, some just have weak attacks and decent-to-bad defense.Examples of this second type of tank include the Dwarvish Guardsman and Ghoul.
2b. Healer: These units often have low health and are weak but play an important role in healing troops.
2c. Mage: These units often have low health and have a weak melee attack but often have a powerful ranged magic attack.
2d. Skirmisher: This class is very expansive, including units such as the Fencer, Orcish Assassin, Saurian Skirmisher and Thief. They all have high defense, low health and bad resists -- often having specific uses in combat rather than being general-use.

3. Scouts: These units are used for village-grabbing and are weak, often unable to survive on their own.

3a. Scout: These are general-use mounted units, typically best on flatland, hills and castle. They have a weak attack and a weak ranged attack or no ranged attack.
3b. Knight: These are pierce-focused mounted units, focused on damage rather than health.
3c. Aerial: These are flying units with low terrain move cost and stable terrain defenses, with high MP.

4. Miscellaneous: I am unsure where to sort these categories

4a. Aquatic: These units (Mermen and Naga) are best in water and swamp, terrible in all other terrains.
4b. Cannon Fodder: Level 0 recruitable spammable units

I would appreciate thoughts on the unit types list I came up with. The Knight category is pretty much useless, as the second unit in it (the Dune mounted lance unit) is now redacted from mainline, so I'm thinking of how I would sort the Horseman.

Edit:

Tanks I sort in two categories. They're characterized by slow to decent mobility, bad to decent defense, and weak attacks. They most often have good resists in their levelups. The first type is the Undead Tank, with the Dwarvish Fighter (multiclass, also Fighter), Troll and Wose. The second type is just meaty; including the Ogre, Dwarvish Guardsman.

Also, the Spearmen line often have something along the lines of a 6-1 javelin strike which often does not get better. The only exception to this is the Dwarvish Guardsman which loses Firststrike for Steadfast and gets a powerful ranged.

Thought I would elaborate on those two.
Last edited by Ashmyr on June 5th, 2021, 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Novice campaign creator.
Developer of "Dwarvish Kingdom" for 1.14.x; intermediate Dwarvish campaign. Any and all constructive feedback, is greatly appreciated! If you have played it, please DM me :)
More campaigns to come soon :)
User avatar
egallager
Posts: 576
Joined: November 19th, 2020, 7:27 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Unit Types

Post by egallager »

I think it's worth noting the existing usage= key in UnitTypeWML, which currently accepts values of scout, fighter, archer, mixed fighter, and healer. I wonder how the game would change if that field were updated to accept some of the additional types you list?
User avatar
James_The_Invisible
Posts: 534
Joined: October 28th, 2012, 1:58 pm
Location: Somewhere in the Northlands, fighting dark forces
Contact:

Re: Unit Types

Post by James_The_Invisible »

egallager wrote: May 30th, 2021, 4:26 am I think it's worth noting the existing usage= key in UnitTypeWML, which currently accepts values of scout, fighter, archer, mixed fighter, and healer. I wonder how the game would change if that field were updated to accept some of the additional types you list?
Actually, the wiki explicitly states:
Non-standard usages may be used as well.
(It is at the end of the section about usage.)
About effects of non-standard values, (again according to wiki) it might affect recruitment by ai (if I remember correctly, ai can be configured to recruit units based on their usage and it might ignore units with other usage). I have not used any custom values so I do not know for sure whether such units can be recruited by standard ai but my guess would be yes.
User avatar
Atreides
Posts: 1059
Joined: March 30th, 2019, 10:38 pm
Location: On the 2nd story of the centre village of Merwuerdigliebe turning the lights on and off

Re: Unit Types

Post by Atreides »

As regards usage I believe that you can define your own and use them in the recruitment pattern. Note that the recruit pattern is very rigid and will only recruit what is listed in those exact proportions.

e.g.
scout,medic,archer,fighter,fihgter will recruit 25% scout, 25% medic (assuming you have one), 25% archer and 25% fighter. If you did not use a fihgter usage in any unit that typo will be ignored as will any others that are not used.

The AI only moves scouts differently to keep them away from the enemy, the other usages apparently are just words.

Personally I remove recruit patterns from any era I modify. I believe that is an obsolete crutch from some very old version of BfW. The recruit ai is quite clever these days and I've found it does a much better job w/o the patterns.
kjn
Posts: 46
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 4:26 pm

Re: Unit Types

Post by kjn »

You might be interested in The Roles of Units, where I attempted a similar style of categorisation of units in Wesnoth.

Using the model in that post, I'd classify the Ulfserker as a reserve unit.
User avatar
Atreides
Posts: 1059
Joined: March 30th, 2019, 10:38 pm
Location: On the 2nd story of the centre village of Merwuerdigliebe turning the lights on and off

Re: Unit Types

Post by Atreides »

kjn wrote: June 3rd, 2021, 8:59 am You might be interested in The Roles of Units, where I attempted a similar style of categorisation of units in Wesnoth.

Using the model in that post, I'd classify the Ulfserker as a reserve unit.
That's one of two ways to use the Ulf. If you want to keep it alive and maybe level it you keep it as the final attacker and make sure it is not exposed to much counterattack.

The other way is of course to use it as a guided missile. A one shot weapon that destroys its target and is destroyed in the process.
User avatar
Ashmyr
Posts: 72
Joined: January 26th, 2021, 6:10 pm
Location: Western United States

Re: Unit Types

Post by Ashmyr »

kjn wrote: June 3rd, 2021, 8:59 am You might be interested in The Roles of Units, where I attempted a similar style of categorisation of units in Wesnoth.

Using the model in that post, I'd classify the Ulfserker as a reserve unit.
I'll have to check that out, thanks! I'm very interested in what people have to say about my categorizations, I know I use a lot more categories than normal, but I'd be interested to hear if other people think my categories work.

I'll probably check it out either in a bit or tomorrow afternoon, if I remember. When I do, I'll make a post and let you know.

The Ulfserker, now that I think about it, probably best fits my "Fighter" category but that doesn't seem to fit well..he dies in the enemy's counterattack usually.
Novice campaign creator.
Developer of "Dwarvish Kingdom" for 1.14.x; intermediate Dwarvish campaign. Any and all constructive feedback, is greatly appreciated! If you have played it, please DM me :)
More campaigns to come soon :)
User avatar
Ashmyr
Posts: 72
Joined: January 26th, 2021, 6:10 pm
Location: Western United States

Re: Unit Types

Post by Ashmyr »

Atreides wrote: June 3rd, 2021, 2:54 pm
That's one of two ways to use the Ulf. If you want to keep it alive and maybe level it you keep it as the final attacker and make sure it is not exposed to much counterattack.

The other way is of course to use it as a guided missile. A one shot weapon that destroys its target and is destroyed in the process.
Yeah, the Ulf sure is a strange unit with rather specific uses, nothing quite like him in the game.

But I do agree with your two ideas on how Ulfs should be used.
Novice campaign creator.
Developer of "Dwarvish Kingdom" for 1.14.x; intermediate Dwarvish campaign. Any and all constructive feedback, is greatly appreciated! If you have played it, please DM me :)
More campaigns to come soon :)
Yoshi
Posts: 13
Joined: March 24th, 2009, 1:58 am

Re: Unit Types

Post by Yoshi »

Ashmyr wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:52 pm ...1b. Spearman: These are basic melee units who deal pierce damage. They are better at fighting Drakes but worse at fighting Undead. They typically have three strikes, can have Firststrike, and their advancements never have more than three melee strikes. They have a weak ranged attack or no ranged...
*Drake Thrasher rolls his eyes*
User avatar
Ashmyr
Posts: 72
Joined: January 26th, 2021, 6:10 pm
Location: Western United States

Re: Unit Types

Post by Ashmyr »

Yoshi wrote: July 12th, 2021, 2:51 am
Ashmyr wrote: May 28th, 2021, 9:52 pm ...1b. Spearman: These are basic melee units who deal pierce damage. They are better at fighting Drakes but worse at fighting Undead. They typically have three strikes, can have Firststrike, and their advancements never have more than three melee strikes. They have a weak ranged attack or no ranged...
*Drake Thrasher rolls his eyes*
Huh..guess I forgot about that..
Novice campaign creator.
Developer of "Dwarvish Kingdom" for 1.14.x; intermediate Dwarvish campaign. Any and all constructive feedback, is greatly appreciated! If you have played it, please DM me :)
More campaigns to come soon :)
Post Reply