Default L0 Era

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MoonyDragon
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by MoonyDragon »

My broad sketch for the L0 Drake faction is as follows:
L0 Drakes
Drake Fledgling
- 10g
- 20hp
- 23xp
- 6mp
- 5-2 melee-blade
- 3-2 ranged-fire
-> Drake Fighter / Drake Glider


Drake Spark
- 12g
- 20hp
- 23xp
- 5mp
- 5-2 melee-blade
- 3-4 ranged-fire
-> Drake Burner

Drake Piercer
- 12g
- 20hp
- 23xp
- 5mp
- 3-4 melee-blade
- 6-2 melee-pierce
-> Drake Clasher


Saurian Devotee
- 10g
- 16hp
- 23xp
- 6mp
- 3-1 melee-impact
- 3-3 ranged-cold
-> Saurian Augur


Saurian Scout
- 10g
- 16hp
- 23xp
- 6mp
- 3-3 melee-pierce
- 3-1 ranged-pierce
-> Saurian Skirmisher

???
- ?
- ?
- ?
- 8mp
- ?
-> ???
Obviously, all of this is hypothetical at the moment and may change, depending on artwork and balance.
Default L0 Era - Level 1 leaders with level 0 recruits!
Pilauli
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by Pilauli »

I would actually suggest a different division of the drakes:

Give the Glider its own level 0, and lump the Clasher in with the Fighter. This is because the faction needs a scout, and I believe the Clasher's main role is to do pierce damage which the Saurians already do anyway? (Disclaimer: not a multiplayer balance expert.)
Violet-n-red
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by Violet-n-red »

good idea for an era! didn't play it yet, but looks fun. this is the kind of an addon i didn't know i was looking for until i found it :D was just seeing if there are many default era remixes.
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MoonyDragon
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by MoonyDragon »

Violet-n-red wrote: March 7th, 2021, 7:16 pm good idea for an era! didn't play it yet, but looks fun. this is the kind of an addon i didn't know i was looking for until i found it :D was just seeing if there are many default era remixes.
To be honest, the idea is neither mine nor new. Level 0s in general used to be a hot topic around 2007-2009, but all of that died for some reason and was never really discussed again. The majority of units from the 'Default L0 Era' share the exact same design as their predecessors in these threads:
Variations on the L0 Human
Anyone ever done a level 0 horseman?
Additional level 0s
Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans
Level 0 Era

For further reference, here are also some campaigns that use the L0 units from the threads above:
Campaign: Saving Elensefar
The Militia
Default L0 Era - Level 1 leaders with level 0 recruits!
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Aldarisvet
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by Aldarisvet »

Well, the result is quite good.

http://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/Default_L ... 0_era.html

I am happy you took my Pilferer and the Sqiure is based on my Mounted Peasant too.
Initiate looks funny and stupid a bit, like some beggar wearing rags (I know you took it as it is from somewhere so not your fault). I think he better be without a hood.

Dark Initiate looks better, was a good idea with recoloring, because being like a beggar is more suitable to him, but he should not have a stick as he does not have a melee attack anycase.
So they both would not be easely mixed.
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MoonyDragon
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by MoonyDragon »

Aldarisvet wrote: March 9th, 2021, 10:56 pm Initiate looks funny and stupid a bit, like some beggar wearing rags (I know you took it as it is from somewhere so not your fault). I think he better be without a hood.

Dark Initiate looks better, was a good idea with recoloring, because being like a beggar is more suitable to him, but he should not have a stick as he does not have a melee attack anycase.
So they both would not be easely mixed.
To me, the Initiate never looked like a beggar, but more like a typical commoner unit. May I ask what feature of the sprite evokes that perception?

As for the recolored sprite and the stick of the Dark Initiate, its quite the story. Originally, I wanted to have one unit that advances into both the Mage and the Dark Adept, but those were too heterogeneous in regards to alignment and damage types. My half-baked solution was to add a chaotic Initiate, so that the undead wouldn't be stuck with a lawful unit. I am still not satisfied with the current state of affairs, but for a lack of better ideas, the Dark Initiate is here to stay.

Also, thanks for the sprite feedback! Both the Dark Initiate and the Nobleman sprites have been on my nerves for quite some time now...
Default L0 Era - Level 1 leaders with level 0 recruits!
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Aldarisvet
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by Aldarisvet »

MoonyDragon wrote: March 10th, 2021, 11:18 pm To me, the Initiate never looked like a beggar, but more like a typical commoner unit. May I ask what feature of the sprite evokes that perception?
Well, there is a disproportion between big hood and a subtle lower part of the sprite.
This unit was created for some era long ago and I was always wondering how stupid it looks. If you create a lower level unit (from lvl1 Mage in this case), you cannot just change lower part of the sprite, leaving the upper as it was. This is not Wesnoth style.
But somehow I found this looks not so bad in Dark Adept line.

Aside of this case, I really think that lvl0 units from this era should be mainlned because the quality is good enough.
UMC creators need lvl0 units badly.
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MoonyDragon
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by MoonyDragon »

Aldarisvet wrote: March 12th, 2021, 6:18 am Well, there is a disproportion between big hood and a subtle lower part of the sprite.
This unit was created for some era long ago and I was always wondering how stupid it looks. If you create a lower level unit (from lvl1 Mage in this case), you cannot just change lower part of the sprite, leaving the upper as it was. This is not Wesnoth style.
But somehow I found this looks not so bad in Dark Adept line.
In proportion to the body, the hood is exactly as big as the hair of the female Initiate, who additionally shares heads with the Mage and Red Mage. The other peasant units exhibit a similar tendency to Neoteny, which makes them more 'lvl0-like'. I emulated that effect when reworking the original sprite.
Aldarisvet wrote: March 12th, 2021, 6:18 am Aside of this case, I really think that lvl0 units from this era should be mainlned because the quality is good enough.
UMC creators need lvl0 units badly.
While I'd love to see the Squire/Elvish Citizen/Merman Citizen/Initiate in mainline, there is still some work (sprites,balance,descriptions) to do... When releasing, I made the mistake of starting with 1.0.0 instead of 0.1.0, so version 2.0.0 will be the finished stable. But for the time being, anyone can either copy units from this era or add it as a dependency via add-ons/Default_L0_Era/include.cfg.
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Simons Mith
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by Simons Mith »

@MoonyDragon
I've skimmed through your L0 era very quickly, but I've almost finished the first Antar, Son of Rheor pass, so I'll stick with that for a little while yet.
However I do have some unit name suggestions for you, in bold:

Dwarvish Miner, Dwarvish Woodcutter: like
Pilferer: a little bit weak - perhaps Cutpurse?
Ruffian: spot on
Vampire Bat, Woodsman: both fine
Initiate: also fine, perhaps Novice as an alt?
Merman Citizen: also fine, perhaps Merman and Mermaid as alts?
Nobleman: I think Gentleman or Yeoman might be better, because this unit doesn't advance to noble titles. The Squire actually does better at that.

Or split into
Gentleman -> Fencer -> Duelist -> Master at Arms
Yeoman -> Sergeant -> Lieutenant -> General -> Grand Marshal

Peasant,Squire,Woodsman: all good IMO
Elvish Citizen: Or, Elf?
Elvish Healer, Elvish Horseman: Good

[Merman Citizen - why are they repeated in the unit tree? Is there a glitch?]

Wose Sapling: Good

Dark Initiate: Good
Cannibal: This was very good, if you can ever find suitable unit art

Soul: the one I like least - suggest Unquiet Spirit

Vampire Bat, Walking Corpse: Fine

Walking Skeleton: also weak, - suggest Lesser Skeleton

and possible future gap-fillers Drake Hatchling, Ironclad (or just Infantryman), Saurian / Saurian Spear-Thrower, Witch, Hedge Wizard, Naga Brave, Orc Bravo, Orc Skulker

Dunno if you're interested in game mechanical tweaks, but how about making the mage's attack 1/10 so that they have a more powerful but uncontrolled blast? Just to change things up a little? I'd also add a point to the staff damage cos it's pretty wimpy anyway even at level 1, and it's not something a mage would invest much time improving.
 
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MoonyDragon
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by MoonyDragon »

Simons Mith wrote: August 7th, 2021, 12:49 am ...
Pilferer - I'm undecided about that unit. Finding a diminutive name for Thief is already a challenge, so I fear that all we have left is a choice of mediocre names. Unless one of us has an ingenious idea, I'll probably stick with the current name.

Nobleman - It fits nicely with Bowman/Spearman/etc naming for humans. I'll keep it as it is.

Soul - just Spirit seems to be a good name, actually. I'll use that.

Walking Skeleton - I tried to make a reference to the Walking Corpse unit. Still undecided.

Elvish Citizen - Elf is far too broad, so I'll keep the current name.

Elvish Horseman - I'd like to ask you about this one in particular. What do you think of Elvish Courier?
Simons Mith wrote: August 7th, 2021, 12:49 am Merman Citizen - why are they repeated in the unit tree? Is there a glitch?
They are in both the Loyalist and Rebel factions, thus displayed twice. Same thing with the Initiate.
Simons Mith wrote: August 7th, 2021, 12:49 am and possible future gap-fillers
I'll keep those in mind. Same with the Cannibal.
Simons Mith wrote: August 7th, 2021, 12:49 am Dunno if you're interested in game mechanical tweaks, but how about making the mage's attack 1/10 so that they have a more powerful but uncontrolled blast? Just to change things up a little? I'd also add a point to the staff damage cos it's pretty wimpy anyway even at level 1, and it's not something a mage would invest much time improving.
That would be a huge pain to balance (2 lucky shots kill anything), aswell as not fun to use (what if you miss?).
Default L0 Era - Level 1 leaders with level 0 recruits!
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egallager
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by egallager »

Thanks for creating this era; I've been stealing from it for my add-ons quite a bit now.
dwarftough
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by dwarftough »

Hi, will it be ported on 1.16? Would be nice to have it there too
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MoonyDragon
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by MoonyDragon »

dwarftough wrote: January 6th, 2022, 3:53 am Hi, will it be ported on 1.16? Would be nice to have it there too
Yes! I will port it as soon as I finish a little rework of this era. I didn't have much time for Wesnoth lately, but I will do my best to hurry up.
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egallager
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by egallager »

MoonyDragon wrote: January 11th, 2022, 2:37 am
dwarftough wrote: January 6th, 2022, 3:53 am Hi, will it be ported on 1.16? Would be nice to have it there too
Yes! I will port it as soon as I finish a little rework of this era. I didn't have much time for Wesnoth lately, but I will do my best to hurry up.
Any progress on this? I've been wanting to make use of a BfW-1.16-compatible version of this era...
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egallager
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Re: Default L0 Era

Post by egallager »

I rendered a gif of the Soul unit that I stole from this era for ANO:
soul.gif
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