Modding the WWII Era MP Mod/Addon

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ItalicFont
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Modding the WWII Era MP Mod/Addon

Post by ItalicFont »

I'm safe to assume the WWII Era MP Mod is practically discontinued since it was last updated 2+ years ago. I wanted to see some more nations added so I just added them myself. I based some of the sprites off of the originals. So far I've added 2 and a tenth more factions. I've added Italy, who has a slight boost in Mountain/Hills/Desert terrain, and Finland, who have OP infantry but they require a lot of XP to level up.
IT_Fanteria.png
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A discord if anyone wants to join, I'm not active on discord tho: https://discord.gg/9DvcEJTHUe
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Last edited by ItalicFont on April 12th, 2021, 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TeaIntoxicated
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Re: Modding the WWII Era MP Mod/Addon

Post by TeaIntoxicated »

Rather than new factions, I'd revisit what we have now.
There are big discrepancies between certain units (like comparing T-26 to Panzer III or M4A3E8 to T-34-76 as well as damage stats), and there are lacks in terms of gameplay depth regarding melee-range (or here, short-long distance combat) and mobility (no scouts / units above 7MP) and vehicle parameters. Additionally, there are no weapon icons beyond simple fireballs from default.
I made quite a lot of progress in terms of new tank graphics (and getting the already existing ones straight by adding team colors and proper roadwheel count) but adapted to Eastern Front 1943, and I haven't touched AT guns beyond creating ZiS-2 (and then ZiS-3 which I forgot to save), and everything below 57mm is going to greatly struggle against midwar tanks like T-34s, Shermans and KV-1.

Honestly, Italians seem a relatively minor faction to me, and if anything, I would rather see them with SPGs instead of regular tanks, because these were like 3 years backwards compared to major powers (like UK or the already-present trio)

Below I post's what I've created
I have some more, but they need work on, they are mostly early versions of Panzer III and IV, as well as T-34 with L-11. The latter lacks one road wheel however, so it needs work on.
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ItalicFont
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Re: Modding the WWII Era MP Mod/Addon

Post by ItalicFont »

TeaIntoxicated wrote: April 9th, 2021, 7:57 pm Rather than new factions, I'd revisit what we have now.
There are big discrepancies between certain units (like comparing T-26 to Panzer III or M4A3E8 to T-34-76 as well as damage stats), and there are lacks in terms of gameplay depth regarding melee-range (or here, short-long distance combat) and mobility (no scouts / units above 7MP) and vehicle parameters. Additionally, there are no weapon icons beyond simple fireballs from default.
I made quite a lot of progress in terms of new tank graphics (and getting the already existing ones straight by adding team colors and proper roadwheel count) but adapted to Eastern Front 1943, and I haven't touched AT guns beyond creating ZiS-2 (and then ZiS-3 which I forgot to save), and everything below 57mm is going to greatly struggle against midwar tanks like T-34s, Shermans and KV-1.

Honestly, Italians seem a relatively minor faction to me, and if anything, I would rather see them with SPGs instead of regular tanks, because these were like 3 years backwards compared to major powers (like UK or the already-present trio)

Below I post's what I've created
I have some more, but they need work on, they are mostly early versions of Panzer III and IV, as well as T-34 with L-11. The latter lacks one road wheel however, so it needs work on.
Hello! Nice tank spritework.
"Rather than new factions, I'd revisit what we have now.", I agree whole heartily. But I wanted to add a personal faction because I am biased/was bored on an afternoon. A little flavor to a mod that hasn't been worked on for 2+ years isn't that bad.

"There are big discrepancies between certain units", I'm sure MonsieurIvan realized this too and instead of being historically accurate he took a more gameplay-based approach. There is a more realistic WWII add-on called " Battleground Europe" if you want total realism. If not, you're gonna have to learn compromise.

"there are lacks in terms of gameplay depth regarding melee-range and mobility", yeah. The lack of melee attacks does suck for when playing survival maps but it was designed to just be WWII era against itself, not any other eras/vanilla. Not sure how I could implement it though, most weapons at the time were automatic guns, many nations seemed to ditch the bayonet (besides japan).
And yes we need scout cars or something of the similar, but adding new units would mean having to mess with the current prices of units (which may be a good thing, make tanks more expensive but buff them too and being able to add artillery canons).

"Additionally, there are no weapon icons beyond simple fireballs from default.", I'm assuming these were placeholders. MonsieurIvan most likely was focusing on the units and balance of the game and would've added some icons later on if he didn't just stop development.

"I made quite a lot of progress in terms of new tank graphics", thanks for posting some of them <:^), they look nice.

"Honestly, Italians seem a relatively minor faction to me", that's fine, I was thinking about adding more factions, both majors (UK, France[?], Japan) and minors (Nationalist/Republican Spain, Hungary, Romania, etc.).

"Below I post's what I've created
I have some more, but they need work on, they are mostly early versions of Panzer III and IV, as well as T-34 with L-11.", They look very nice! I'm not good with tank art, I had to use the other tank's sprites as a base for the italian tank.

Well thank you for your input! It was very constructive and was impossible to disagree in some places. I also really like your tank art. Have a great day when you read this and feel free to message back. :^)
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TeaIntoxicated
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Re: Modding the WWII Era MP Mod/Addon

Post by TeaIntoxicated »

ItalicFont wrote: April 12th, 2021, 8:04 pm
TeaIntoxicated wrote: April 9th, 2021, 7:57 pm Rather than new factions, I'd revisit what we have now.
There are big discrepancies between certain units (like comparing T-26 to Panzer III or M4A3E8 to T-34-76 as well as damage stats), and there are lacks in terms of gameplay depth regarding melee-range (or here, short-long distance combat) and mobility (no scouts / units above 7MP) and vehicle parameters. Additionally, there are no weapon icons beyond simple fireballs from default.
I made quite a lot of progress in terms of new tank graphics (and getting the already existing ones straight by adding team colors and proper roadwheel count) but adapted to Eastern Front 1943, and I haven't touched AT guns beyond creating ZiS-2 (and then ZiS-3 which I forgot to save), and everything below 57mm is going to greatly struggle against midwar tanks like T-34s, Shermans and KV-1.

Honestly, Italians seem a relatively minor faction to me, and if anything, I would rather see them with SPGs instead of regular tanks, because these were like 3 years backwards compared to major powers (like UK or the already-present trio)

Below I post's what I've created
I have some more, but they need work on, they are mostly early versions of Panzer III and IV, as well as T-34 with L-11. The latter lacks one road wheel however, so it needs work on.
Hello! Nice tank spritework.
"Rather than new factions, I'd revisit what we have now.", I agree whole heartily. But I wanted to add a personal faction because I am biased/was bored on an afternoon. A little flavor to a mod that hasn't been worked on for 2+ years isn't that bad.

"There are big discrepancies between certain units", I'm sure MonsieurIvan realized this too and instead of being historically accurate he took a more gameplay-based approach. There is a more realistic WWII add-on called " Battleground Europe" if you want total realism. If not, you're gonna have to learn compromise.

"there are lacks in terms of gameplay depth regarding melee-range and mobility", yeah. The lack of melee attacks does suck for when playing survival maps but it was designed to just be WWII era against itself, not any other eras/vanilla. Not sure how I could implement it though, most weapons at the time were automatic guns, many nations seemed to ditch the bayonet (besides japan).
And yes we need scout cars or something of the similar, but adding new units would mean having to mess with the current prices of units (which may be a good thing, make tanks more expensive but buff them too and being able to add artillery canons).

"Additionally, there are no weapon icons beyond simple fireballs from default.", I'm assuming these were placeholders. MonsieurIvan most likely was focusing on the units and balance of the game and would've added some icons later on if he didn't just stop development.

"I made quite a lot of progress in terms of new tank graphics", thanks for posting some of them <:^), they look nice.

"Honestly, Italians seem a relatively minor faction to me", that's fine, I was thinking about adding more factions, both majors (UK, France[?], Japan) and minors (Nationalist/Republican Spain, Hungary, Romania, etc.).

"Below I post's what I've created
I have some more, but they need work on, they are mostly early versions of Panzer III and IV, as well as T-34 with L-11.", They look very nice! I'm not good with tank art, I had to use the other tank's sprites as a base for the italian tank.

Well thank you for your input! It was very constructive and was impossible to disagree in some places. I also really like your tank art. Have a great day when you read this and feel free to message back. :^)
1. Factions - adding new national armies is very labor-intensive due to significant graphic differences. I'd rather create subfactions for large nations, like splitting RKKA or Wehrmacht into infantry, artillery and armored regiments.
However, they are rather labour-heavy to balance.
It's a future concept, I want to first balance what we have now.


2. Unit discrepancies

A) In terms of year they were introduced into arsenals, it's rather simple - we could just set an approximate year during which the era takes place (for example if we take 1943 we are going to have SU-152 or Tiger available, but vehicles like T-26 will be unavailable, and T-34 would be recruitable, and if we take spring 1942 we will see Panzer IV with L/43 as top-grade unit). Luckily it's already in mostly good proportions, and the tanks are off the most - and that's something I think I can fix (honestly, tanks undergo very intensive arms race - infantryman can't just be built larger to carry more armor or accurately fire LMG like it was SMG when we feel like it).
While I wanted to go for early 1943 with my tank-heavy Eastern Front variant, I'd go for 1942 now - earlier on Soviets would have too big edge due to lack of widespread mid-grade AT guns, and later on Italian tanks would be put into really bad position, because the basic Soviet tanks overperform Italy's finest.

B) In terms of scale - I think of converting infantry from single soldiers to fireteams as single units, akin to games like Company of Heroes or C&C series from Tiberium Wars onward. I mean, technically an AT gun or a tank is a small group of soldiers, just with weapons that need multiple men to operate. Graphically it's simple, just clustering 3 images together.
We don't exactly need to sacrifice gameplay for that.
More, we may implement an additional change thanks to that - 1-man infantry weapons, like rifle fire or SMG assault, but not crew-served weapons or grenades could have swarm special effect - if we classify damage taken as squadmates dying or getting incapacitated rather than just getting wounded.

That would not only add contrast with heavier weaponry, but also grant us opportunity to add APCs or troop trucks that work simply in the principle, but at the same time consistently - they would "heal" squads by replenishing losses with reinforcements and carry medical supplies to get the wounded back to working order or just take them out of the fray.
At the same time the very same APCs could double as scouting units.
That's a future concept for now, however.

3. You used other tank's sprites... well, guess what, I did the same thing. Thanks for appreciation, by the way.

4. Battlefield Europe - I know about it.
For my taste it strays too far away from original gameplay, but probably it's the artstyle that just stabs my eyes.
In the original post about Ivan's WWII Era I appreciated the tank art style - while mildly flawed here and there it has clearly visible shape as 3D object, in addition to details. And those mild flaws is what I'm ironing out, like odd turret placement, incorrect road wheel count, proportions mildly off.

5. Melee - Bayonet? Melee was outdated due to sheer killing power of SMGs in close quarters. I thought of just that - grenades, molotovs, submachine guns, shotguns, perhaps suppressive fire from machine guns or defense fire from rifles. Naturally, tanks and artillery would be the least capable of responding - as Tom Witringham said - "The most dangerous distance away from a tank is 200 yards; the safest distance is six inches."
Certain units could also have "artillery" or "indirect" type or regular ranged type with "no counterattack" weapon special.

6. Weapon icons - I'd simply use the ones from EoMa once given permission.
darkator
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Re: Modding the WWII Era MP Mod/Addon

Post by darkator »

Fighter and bomber sprites:
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darkator
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Re: Modding the WWII Era MP Mod/Addon

Post by darkator »

And one more:
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TeaIntoxicated
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Re: Modding the WWII Era MP Mod/Addon

Post by TeaIntoxicated »

darkator wrote: April 16th, 2021, 7:50 am Fighter and bomber sprites
The problem with aircraft is that they can obscure the movement, negate concealment (they shouldn't see well concealed infantry or AT guns), lay a whole new part of the balance and usually have a very restricted time of operations, they hang around the battlefield for days without refueling or maintenance and can be negated by simply restricting access with enough units deployed in horizontal dimensions regardless of their anti-air capacity.

If I were to implement the aircraft in any way, I would go for a way akin to CoH2 or World Conqueror series, where airstrikes act more as resource-costing attacks - by giving the command units (leaders) an attack with animation of enemy getting air-strafed. The attack might alternatively be multi-hex-spanning (no Battle Isle Syndrome because only 1 unit per side gets that), either toggleable in settings before launching the battle and/or cost gold (AI wouldn't handle it), and be of course limited to one per turn (no angry scumming on one unit).
Should these airstrikes be a major balance problem, glass cannon AA gun units might come into the play with special ability giving cold resistance to all surrounding units, and of course cold attack type devoted entirely to airstrikes.
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