New MP Mini-Campaign: An Unnatural Winter

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Wiloyee
Posts: 1
Joined: August 24th, 2005, 5:27 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Wiloyee »

(S)elfish weirdo wrote:the baron of greed, unsung, pete and wiloyee have played it and found it very hard, but doable:

We played on 70% xp, 2 gpv, no shroud and no fog, increasing the xp req to the campaignish 100 would probably make it a bit harder, but then again, decreasing the village gold to 1 would probably make it a bit easier, adding fog and shroud would obviously make it slightly harder, albeit not too much.
Hello I am just waiting for my comment until we have finished this game. Unpleasant we don't finish the game. I played the game more then twice on my one.
The strategic of the dragons can adjusted a little bit. It's imported to hold the city's in the swap. Don't try to attack the bandit until the orc's running out of units. There are 7 city's controlled by Dragons. If you get 2 gold you can buy enough dragons to protect the swamp and send reinforcement to the norder border. Lowering the gold from two too one may not be such a good Idea. The game will be a little bit easier if the dragon king are faster.
Linux for ever...
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ILikeProgramming
Posts: 837
Joined: April 14th, 2005, 4:17 am

Post by ILikeProgramming »

Are you planning on making another mission?
pete
Posts: 19
Joined: August 19th, 2005, 5:12 pm

Post by pete »

I played it again yesterday with 3 other players and wesnoth 1.0.2. It was a lot of fun. The first time, we had 175 gold and got beaten pretty soon, mainly due to bad recruiting choices. Purple waited one turn to recruit and the bandits went north at first, which was a bit odd.

The second time we managed to win, this time with 225 gold, "use map settings" and better recruitment. Bandit and purple behaved normal. We only killed the bandit leader and purple, though. Grey leader lived but was completely surrounded, I thought that you have to kill all leaders to win?!

Anyway, the event was triggered very early in the game, and we almost got slaughtered, everyone felt the pressure and helped the others out, there was a lot of chat going on :lol: Of course we held defensive positions forcing the enemy on bad terrain, which was hard enough with so many enemy troops and almost no villages nearby to heal. This made the game interesting, two elvish shamans were of much importance and sometimes we tried to level up units instead of healing (which cost a lot of losses but in the end the leveled up units were worth it). Drake was the only one with income until we could move north late in the game, we others had to live with what we got from the start recruitment. I'd find it good if the drakes were allowed to recruit a bit more than only 6 drakes btw, maybe 8.

It was a really good game. Everyone found it very challenging and amusing. I'd like to see a sequel of this :wink:
Yogin2
Posts: 24
Joined: April 21st, 2006, 6:56 am

Post by Yogin2 »

I tried the campaign. I found it a bit easy. Strategy was the key.
The drakes easily conquered the outlaws on the left with the help of 2 augur's from the elf, spearmen and a mage. For some reason, the comp sent half it's initial recruit northwards, so sweeping in to finish the only half that was in the south was easy.

The elves held the grassland ford crossing. This was tough at first, but rotating fighters and archers on the grass with a shaman for healing was successful. They took damage on the grass, esp. @ night, but it wasn't too bad inasmuch as only 3 units could attack at one time, and the shaman helped out. Orange wasn't able to put any pressure from the left as the drakes had overrun them.

The loyalists had the most problem. They tried to hold the snow mountains/hills/forests vs. the orcs. Unfortunately, the orcs attacked @ night, and overran the loyalists. They lost almost all their units and were going to lose villages too. However, by that time, day had turned, and the remaining orcs north of the elves retreated. Thus, the elves shifted east, and were able to hold and start to kill off the orcs during the day, while the loyalists recruited and came back for a second run.

At this point, the drakes were filthy rich, with all the villages taken from the outlaws, and were able to sweep through and clean up all the dreck, during day and night.

Balancing issues:

(1) the outlaws have too many villages, and the drakes take them too easily(with saurian caster help).
(2) the loyalists have too few villages.
(3) your defensive terrain is too strong. It's just too easy to hold the defensive terrain and slaughter the orcs. It would have been even easier if the loyalists had held the grassland and the elves had held the snow forest(ala postr above). Perhaps change the eastern shore to grass vs. hills/mountains/forest, and add ford into the center shore so that attacking units aren't all stuck @ 20 def. Better yet, allow the AI to recruit nagas?



PS> first game I played alone. Played a second game with 2-3 other players. It was even more of a rout. Without volunteering any strategy, the other players decided to head west. Outlaws were again overrun, and the elves grabbed and held the forest north of the outlaws. The eastern snow/river snow front was only lightly defended, but the elves backtracked in time to kill off the crossing wolves. Overall, ~6 units were lost. Half of them in a premature rivercrossing. Much too easy.

PPS> weird thing was the second game the drakes could recruit saurian augurs, while on the first game the elves could recruit them, but not the drakes.
<sapientx> [The heavy fighter]'s like a cross between an HI and a mage
<sapientx> I couldn't decide whether to guard him or put him on the front line
tvynr
Posts: 49
Joined: March 21st, 2006, 6:11 pm

Post by tvynr »

Hello, all. I'm also having the problem with Unnatural Winter in that the recruitment list on all of my sides is totally off. Both human sides can summon any loyalist unit they please, the drakes can summon drakes and loyalists, and the elves could summon mage, archer, fighter, scout, and shaman. The campaign seems very interesting, but this is a bit of a problem as it interferes with gameplay just a touch. :)

Here are the settings we used to launch the game; I'm probably doing something wrong there. We launched from a standard multiplayer lobby game.

Era: Default
Map: An Unnatural Winter
Turns: Unlimited
Village Gold: 2
Experience Modifier: 100%
Use Map Settings: On
Time Limit: Off
Fog of War: Off
Shroud: On
Observers: On

Sides 1 and 3 had a human player; sides 2 and 4 were left empty. All teams had a random faction and were on team "players"; all other settings were left as default.

Any ideas?
Rhuvaen
Inactive Developer
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Joined: August 27th, 2004, 8:05 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post by Rhuvaen »

tvynr wrote:Hello, all. I'm also having the problem with Unnatural Winter in that the recruitment list on all of my sides is totally off. Both human sides can summon any loyalist unit they please, the drakes can summon drakes and loyalists, and the elves could summon mage, archer, fighter, scout, and shaman. The campaign seems very interesting, but this is a bit of a problem as it interferes with gameplay just a touch. :)
Hi tvynr,
None of these are off - these factions are designed that way for the campaign. The two loyalist factions are different on close inspection. Here's the rationale for the player sides:
  • 1. Army/Cavalry: this side has all the mounted loyalist units and only a limited supply of mages (only recruitable in the first scenario) - default leader is a Lieutenant.

    2. Mage's Order: this side has mages and heavy infantrymen (as bodyguards), and a limited supply of cavalry and sergeants (only recruitable in the first scenario) - default leader is a Red Mage.

    3. Wardens/Drakes: this side represents an old conclave of Drakes who are sworn defenders of the Pass of Nergen and cooperate with the humans. The Drakes have limited numbers (only seven can be recruited in total over the campaign, and when they die, they can't be replaced - Last Mohican Syndrome :wink:) and come without Saurian counterparts, but they do have some basic human henchmen, too - fencers, cavalry, spearmen and bowmen (so nothing too special in this department). Default leader is the Drake Flare.

    4. Elves: representing the Elvish allies of the Sages. They are like your typical Rebels except they have no mermen or woses. Default Leader is an Elvish Ranger.
These factions are designed the way they are for gameplay purposes. This was designed to have a taut balance, and that wouldn't be possible without having predefined factions. None of the factions are too specialised but yes, they are different!

BTW, to choose a leader different from the default one you just need to select a (non-chaotic) leader of the same race in the setup dialogue, and it will override the default one. Example: Sides 1 or 2 could select a White Mage or Shocktrooper or Javelineer etc. and have that as a leader.
tvynr
Posts: 49
Joined: March 21st, 2006, 6:11 pm

Post by tvynr »

Ah. Reading the introduction gave me the impression that each side is only supposed to have a few units recruitable (and the mages just the two: mage and heavy infantryman). However, do these screenshots look right to you?

http://bahj.com/flotsam/unnatural-winter-ss-1.png
http://bahj.com/flotsam/unnatural-winter-ss-2.png

Those are the recruitment screens I get for sides 1 and 2, respectively.

Cheers!
Rhuvaen
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1272
Joined: August 27th, 2004, 8:05 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post by Rhuvaen »

tvynr wrote:Ah. Reading the introduction gave me the impression that each side is only supposed to have a few units recruitable (and the mages just the two: mage and heavy infantryman).
Ah, the text is misleading or confusing, then. I think you mean this:
objectives wrote:Units available only in this scenario:
#Player 1: Mage, Peasant
#Player 2: Sergeant, Cavalryman, Peasant
It reads "Units available only in this scenario:", rather than "The only units available in this scenario:". That means that these are special units that can only be recruited in this scenario (in addition to those that can be recruited in all others). This is a reminder for the player to recruit some of those units, now, if they want to have them in the rest of the campaign.

I know this is confusing and want to come up with a better wording. (any ideas?) Maybe I should have custom objectives for each side, explaining this in detail?

Never mind that there is only one scenario, yet. :roll:

Those screenshots look perfectly alright. :) Here's the recruit lists for the four player factions (units in italics are available only in the first scenario):
Side 1: Spearman,Horseman,Bowman,Cavalryman,Mage,Fencer,Peasant
Side 2: Cavalryman,Bowman,Heavy Infantryman,Spearman,Sergeant,Mage,Peasant
Side 3: Drake Fighter,Drake Burner,Drake Glider,Drake Clasher,Spearman,Cavalryman,Bowman,Fencer
Side 4: Elvish Archer,Elvish Fighter,Elvish Shaman,Elvish Scout,Mage
tvynr
Posts: 49
Joined: March 21st, 2006, 6:11 pm

Post by tvynr »

Aaah. Yes... it may be good to emphasize that there should be other units available as well. I think a couple other people had the same confusion. Perhaps when you show the list at startup you can show everything we can recruit but then bold or color the units which won't be available after the first scenario?

Thanks for the info. We'll have to give the scenario a try, then. :)

Cheers!
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