Elves of Fear & Night

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Rimbecano
Posts: 23
Joined: January 21st, 2008, 11:45 pm

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Rimbecano »

A Guy wrote:How about...

UNDEAD ELVES?

Because Undead just own.
Already done. See "Walking corpses."
"Reading files and creating cache"

Creating cache? Isn't counterfeiting illegal... :P
User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by turin »

And Skeletons and Skeleton Archers and... after all, "undead" aren't necessarily undead humans, they're also undead elves, orcs, dwarves, goblins, etc...
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
User avatar
Lizard
Posts: 355
Joined: January 19th, 2008, 8:20 am
Location: Hiding in a swamp (gtm +1; DST)

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Lizard »

But Skeletons don't have pointy ears...
~ I'll heal you by 4 hp if you post next to me ~
Have a look at the Era of Strife, featuring Eltireans, Eventide, Minotaurs, Saurians and Triththa
Lord_Aether

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Lord_Aether »

No bones in ears = skeletons don't have ears at all. Probably the reason you can't tell some of them are elves and some human :roll:
User avatar
TrashMan
Posts: 601
Joined: April 30th, 2008, 8:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by TrashMan »

Thanatos wrote:True... but even talking only ... :hmm:
I think those creative resources could be used better.

I really would like to see more new and fresh factions. Til now, Wesnoth is (like most other fantasy) reproducing the standards mostly - no offense, this is really done very well and I like the game a lot and appreciate the work of all contributors. Personally I loved to see that Undead are playable, that was one reason to stick with the game (I am a bit biased in that direction ;) ). But: For examplye I really like the Windsong faction for being something really new to me. More original factions like that would make Wesnoth even better than it is. Only Elves-clones are boring, imho. If one has an idea that is really making a great new faction, why just applying this idea only to an already existing faction and not going further to create it from scratch? (I know that especially the artwork is a problem - but the Windsong prove that it can be done.)

As they say - true originality is done. It has been done before. You can only try to do it with a twist..or present it in a different way.

In general, I'm against mixing every single myth, country, era and idea into one big pot - aliens with psi-suckers, with magic elves with egyptian sphyinx and oriental warriors and medieval warriors and stuff..

You end up with a terrible pile of...nastiness..like D&D.
Light travels much faster than sound, that's why some people seem bright until you hear them speak.

>>> MY LITTLE LAB! <<<
Skizzaltix
Posts: 1114
Joined: December 9th, 2005, 2:38 am

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Skizzaltix »

The best way to get something "new" is to take an existing myth and reinterpret it. See J.R.R. Tolkien ;)
User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by turin »

TrashMan wrote:As they say - true originality is done. It has been done before. You can only try to do it with a twist..or present it in a different way.

In general, I'm against mixing every single myth, country, era and idea into one big pot - aliens with psi-suckers, with magic elves with egyptian sphyinx and oriental warriors and medieval warriors and stuff..

You end up with a terrible pile of...nastiness..like D&D.
That too. I really don't see any reason to add any more factions to the world of Wesnoth.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
User avatar
Thanatos
Posts: 408
Joined: January 17th, 2006, 9:00 pm
Location: The End.
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Thanatos »

TrashMan wrote:As they say - true originality is done. It has been done before. You can only try to do it with a twist..or present it in a different way.

In general, I'm against mixing every single myth, country, era and idea into one big pot - aliens with psi-suckers, with magic elves with egyptian sphyinx and oriental warriors and medieval warriors and stuff.
For the first part: Maybe. Maybe not. I won't exclude that there is still some originality left out there. (Btw: Where did the Windsong come from? Are they based on something, I do not know?)

As for the second: I agree in not mixing up stuff too much. But well, what is the basic orientation of Wesnoth (mainline) then? Is there a rule to which setting we have to stick (in mainline)? European mythology, perhaps? And if so: Are all (mainline) factions, races and monsters compatible to this demand? And why should we be allowed to exclude factions based on other mythologies or fantasy settings, even in seperate eras? If I would be some asian or meso-american guy, I would surely be engaged in creating some stuff I could indentify with better.
turin wrote:That too. I really don't see any reason to add any more factions to the world of Wesnoth.
In general I would agree. However, I surely will not want to discourage anyone who will maybe come up with some great new idea. Even if we would agree that the game (and the world of Wesnoth) is quiet polished, we should stay open enough for additions, where they fit.
ThanatoNoth | Necromanteion | Undead Rights Protection Society
"The gods can demand nothing of me. Even gods answer to me, eventually. [...] I cannot be bidden, I cannot be forced. I will do only that which I know to be right." (Death in Pratchett's "Mort")
User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by turin »

"Where they fit" being the key phrase. And the truth is - they won't, most likely. It's really hard to take a new race and mesh it into the history without something seeming off - unless they are integrated so as to make an appearance throughout the entire history, everything will seem just a bit off - why don't they show up ____ doing ____, or ____ doing ____?
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
User avatar
Gambit
Loose Screw
Posts: 3266
Joined: August 13th, 2008, 3:00 pm
Location: Dynamica
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Gambit »

wouldnt undead elves be kind of oxymoronic?


the different vartiations of "elves" isnt so bad. everyone loves em. and since they as someone said "adapt physically" instead of "with tools" theres more visual variety and so we enjoy playing them more.

but some creative names would be nice.... wouldnt even have to be any sort of derivitive of the word elf... it seems rather stupid to point out that a wise, tall, nature loving, pointy eared, being is in fact, an elf. no?
User avatar
Thanatos
Posts: 408
Joined: January 17th, 2006, 9:00 pm
Location: The End.
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Thanatos »

Gambit wrote:...it seems rather stupid to point out that a wise, tall, nature loving, pointy eared, being is in fact, an elf. no?
Yep. Because that could also describe Vulcans, couldn't it? ;)
turin wrote:"Where they fit" being the key phrase. And the truth is - they won't, most likely. It's really hard to take a new race and mesh it into the history without something seeming off - unless they are integrated so as to make an appearance throughout the entire history, everything will seem just a bit off - why don't they show up ____ doing ____, or ____ doing ____?
Hmm, new chapters in Wesnoth's history could unfold new discoveries. Right now, as I can see, all the action is quiet limited to a very small part of the world. There is plenty of space for new races and factions. Take a look at our real life history for example and explore the relations between Europe and India or China during medieval times for example. Even though they were seperated by then huge distances, they existed in the same world and had some few encounters even in these times. So I won't be too pessimistic about this.

Still, I am all against just adding some more derivates of elves.
ThanatoNoth | Necromanteion | Undead Rights Protection Society
"The gods can demand nothing of me. Even gods answer to me, eventually. [...] I cannot be bidden, I cannot be forced. I will do only that which I know to be right." (Death in Pratchett's "Mort")
User avatar
Gambit
Loose Screw
Posts: 3266
Joined: August 13th, 2008, 3:00 pm
Location: Dynamica
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Gambit »

vulcans are "Space Elves"
Skizzaltix
Posts: 1114
Joined: December 9th, 2005, 2:38 am

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Skizzaltix »

I thought they were what the US government mounts in their planes.
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by thespaceinvader »

Here I thought they WERE planes...

There's nothing wrong per se with a new faction based off an existing species. In fact, it's vastly preferable, in my eyes, to create a new faction than YET another sentient species which somehow had been completely ignored by everyone up until that point.

But TRY to be imaginative about it. Most versions of the elves I've seen have been nothing more than recolours of whatever elf sprites were current at the time (even the mainline Quenoth of UtBS were originially this way. it's only very recently that they've come into some sprites of their own). They've not even bothered to thing of new names for the units. If you want a good example of how to make new factions WELL, look to the Extended Era, partiularly the Steppe Orcs, Sidhe and Dark Elves. These factions take old species (albeit not in the world of Wesnoth, but meh) and completely reinvent them. Whole new unit lines, with entirely new cultures, sprites backgrounds etc etc etc. It's not a short process. It's not an easy process. It happens far too often with the elves, and not nearly often enough with other species. But do it right, and it will be a very rewarding process which results in high quality work.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Skizzaltix
Posts: 1114
Joined: December 9th, 2005, 2:38 am

Re: Elves of Fear & Night

Post by Skizzaltix »

Oh, wait--Are we talking about the pistol now?

In general, I agree with what thespaceinvader just said--But I do feel like it is on some level "okay" to create an entire new set of races, so long as you make the assumption that they have no contact whatsoever with the mainline races, given that they exist in a different imaginary world.
The problem being that no one can look at the era and say, "Oh, I know what those are!"--You need to document everything really, really well, or the player will feel lost and eventually conclude that you had no plan and put no thought into where these creatures came from :hmm:
Of course, you also need to build the new set of races from scratch.

And no, this isn't an attempt to justify my current era project--The Faehen Era is the result of my thinking this, not the other way around :P
Post Reply